Touche, Mr. Carcieri! It is what it is and I hope you and your fellow committee members keep up the good work. Maybe our EP delegation will read this and think about how they can support your goals.

Of course. Let us take the money away from the little guys - the union members - and give it to the lawyers! Take a look at the budget from last night's school committee meeting. They compared the 08-09 budget to the new budget 09-10. Legal fees in each were $500,000. If they compared the new budget, 09-10, to the ACTUAL figures as they should have done, it would have showed 08-09 to be well over $750,000. in legal fees. If this is just one line item, imagine the smoke and mirrors in the rest of the report.

Yes, lets look at last night's school committe meeting. The only speaker during the public comment part of the meeting was Val Lawson ............. a regular to say the least ..................... once again announcing that the Teacher's Union was filing yet another UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE against the School Dept. These ULP's cost the School Dept. on the average of $20,000 apiece in legal fees to defend. So if you want to know why the legal fees are so high, SPEAK TO VAL AND HER UNION! The Teacher's Union have filed dozens of these ULP's against the School Dept. in the last 1 1/2 years!

By the way.................................they file these ULP's just to harass the school committee, never caring that they are just wasting taxpayer's money in doing so. The Union is mad and they just don't care.

If those ulp are filed only to harass people then surely they must be thrown out or ruled against. What are the results of those filings improveEp???I'm sure that Kinder does not mind the money he is being paid to defend them or the half million and climbing that he has been gi en by the town so far.

Yes, this is a power struggle. Yes, the unions have way too much power. Yes, the politicians have made serious mistakes in allowing that power to grow and bring us to where it is now. By being just as greedy as the unions, like the recent raises in the face of such an economy, the politicians only prove they are just as bad. Now is the time for solutions, not constantly stating the obvious.

This oneupmansip has got to stop. The politicians that have allowed this problem to grow at the same time lining their own pockets is half the reason the unions have as much power as they do. There is more than enough blame to go around several times. Our elected officials were put in their positions to protect the people from this sort of thing, not to constantly blame people and cloud the issue with innuendo and rhetoric.

The union base has to stand up and tell their leadership enough already.

The citizens have to vote the politicians that don't have a solid platform of reform out.

Just like in hockey, when in a face off if one or the other or both players get too agressive they get waved off and somebody else takes their place. Only when we as voters show them we have the capacity to do this will these politicians start doing what they are supposed to.

If the unions would stop the frivolous lawsuits, Kinder wouldn't be recieving so many paychecks.

We finally have a school committee that doesn't lay down to the unions, and they hate it. The unions are certainly not the little guys. The students and the taxpayers are the little guys, and they are all out of money, and our students deserve quality education without taking every last dollar from the city.

Unfortunately, alot of union members are too afraid of their leadership to speak up. They don't want to be snubbed for their whole teaching career.

"I'm sure that Kinder does not mind the money he is being paid to defend them or the half million and climbing that he has been gi en by the town so far."

YOU ARE A GENIUS!

OF COURSE HE DOESN'T MIND THE MONEY HE IS BEING PAID TO DEFEND THEM ....................... THATS HIS JOB!

HE IS A LAWYER!

That is one of the most stupid comments that keeps being used over and over again in this contest with the Teacher's Union.

Of course the City of EP is running up a legal bill. Do you know any good labor lawyers who will do it for free?

The other option is to give the Teacher's Union everything they want, that will cost about $4,000,000 per year more.

What do you think the school committe should do?

PLEASE GET REAL!

and I will stand by what I stated earlier ......... the Teacher's Union is as mad as hell because they are coming up empty .............. they have nothing, so they keep filing Unfair Labor Practices against the school committee .................... as the gentleman stated ........... frivolous!

AND THEY COST MONEY ($$$$) TO DEFEND.

So the spinners say things like "lining the pockets of their rich republican friends"

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPID !

I think if a judge told the teachers unions to stop wasting their time and stop filing these stupid Unfair Labor Practices against the school committee and told the teachers union to pay back all the legal fees that the City of EP had to dish out, they would think twice about filing anymore.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT "katlover777"

It would also be interesting to hear from the many teachers who dare not open their mouths because of fear of reprisals from the Teacher's Union leadership.

I've heard that many of them are not in agreement with the way their leadership is handling this situation in EP and are thinking of getting rid of Val Lawson.

Gee, do you think if the superintendent would listen to one union grievance it could stop the ULP? But, he won't. He is forcing their hands. No one to blame but him.

Not in agreement with the union? Only complaint I have heard is that the union might not be doing enough. Be careful what you wish for.

Improve ep as usual you failed to answer a question. How manybof these ULP have been tossed out as frivoulous like you said. As for being afraid to speak up against the union I think you over estimate the fear that teachers have for the union. I have been to contract talks and many meetings and have seen people having discussions and talks like reasonable people. I know many teachers who have disagreed with the union for one reason or another and none of us have been hurt or forced out of our position.

Not tossed out as frivolous - frivolous becase the superintendent would not hear them in the first place. They continue to force the hand of the union and put money into the pockets of Kinder.

Sadley

If the School Department would stop violating labor laws, the union would have NO REASON to file unfair labor practices....

BUT THAT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!!!!!

As far as ULPs being thrown out for being frivoulos?

TRY ZERO!!!! NONE of the violations has been "thrown out"

Judge Silverstien did send a few to the Labor Board for their decision, but that is FAR from being thrown out!!!

Traffic offenses go to traffic court, civil offenses go to civil court, and labor offenses go to the labor board...it seems simple enough.

STAY TUNED YOU NON-BELIEVERS, LOL

WATCH: IF THE UNION RAN CLASS ELECTIONS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu4oj_2E1jE&feature=channel

TEACHERS UNIONS EXPOSED! GREAT WEB SITE! HERE:

http://teachersunionexposed.com/

THIS IS AN EXCERPT FROM "TEACHERS UNIONS EXPOSED"

A GREAT RESOURCE SITE

"Teachers unions push for contracts that effectively cripple school districts’ ability to monitor teachers for dangerous behavior. In one case, school administrators in Seattle received at least 30 warnings that a fifth grade teacher was a danger to his students. However, thanks to a union contract that forces schools to destroy most personnel records after each school year, he managed to evade punishment for nearly 20 years, until he was finally sent to prison in 2005 for having molested up to 13 girls. As an attorney for one of the victims put it, according to The Seattle Times, “You could basically have a pedophile in your midst and not know it. How are you going to get rid of somebody if you don't know what they did in the past?”

"and labor offenses go to the labor board...it seems simple enough."

AND THE LABOR BOARD IS OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY LABOR ........................ it seems simple enough.

LOL

You are in East Providence. Not Seattle. That post means nothing. The labor board is also missing one member from the labor side. Infractions have to be pretty blatant for them to rule in favor of labor.

HERE IS ANOTHER EXCELLENT RESOURCE SITE ABOUT THE DANGERS OF UNIONS:

http://www.unionfacts.com/

Both the sites seem "fair and balanced" sort of like relying on Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken to bring you non biased news. Way to dig deep and do your research improveEp. Watchdan I won't comment on your post, I don't want to be accussed of stalking Aka Watchdan or Dan Gordon or Insultia or whoever you have made up this time.

Another irrelevant post by watchman. Any idea how much the union "boss" in the teachers union gets paid? Less than a school committee member - and the health insurance isn't even as good - if you are even eligible for it.

PlayFair, Here you go. Is this close enough to Rhode Island for you? (And let's not forget Borgia)

http://badbadteacher.com/category/rhode-island/

We obviously have two 'bad' teachers here.....why else would they be so opposed to merit pay, and firing drunks and sexual perverts?

How unions help all workers

By Lawrence Mishel Matthew Walters

August 26, 2003

August 2003 | EPI Briefing Paper #143

How unions help all workers

by Lawrence Mishel and Matthew Walters

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Unions have a substantial impact on the compensation and work lives of both unionized and non-unionized workers. This report presents current data on unions' effect on wages, fringe benefits, total compensation, pay inequality, and workplace protections.

Some of the conclusions are:

• Unions raise wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise compensation, including both wages and benefits, by about 28%.

• Unions reduce wage inequality because they raise wages more for low- and middle-wage workers than for higher-wage workers, more for blue-collar than for white-collar workers, and more for workers who do not have a college degree.

• Strong unions set a pay standard that nonunion employers follow. For example, a high school graduate whose workplace is not unionized but whose industry is 25% unionized is paid 5% more than similar workers in less unionized industries.

• The impact of unions on total nonunion wages is almost as large as the impact on total union wages.

• The most sweeping advantage for unionized workers is in fringe benefits. Unionized workers are more likely than their nonunionized counterparts to receive paid leave, are approximately 18% to 28% more likely to have employer-provided health insurance, and are 23% to 54% more likely to be in employer-provided pension plans.

• Unionized workers receive more generous health benefits than nonunionized workers. They also pay 18% lower health care deductibles and a smaller share of the costs for family coverage. In retirement, unionized workers are 24% more likely to be covered by health insurance paid for by their employer.

• Unionized workers receive better pension plans. Not only are they more likely to have a guaranteed benefit in retirement, their employers contribute 28% more toward pensions.

• Unionized workers receive 26% more vacation time and 14% more total paid leave (vacations and holidays).

Unions play a pivotal role both in securing legislated labor protections and rights such as safety and health, overtime, and family/medical leave and in enforcing those rights on the job. Because unionized workers are more informed, they are more likely to benefit from social insurance programs such as unemployment insurance and workers compensation. Unions are thus an intermediary institution that provides a necessary complement to legislated benefits and protections.

The union wage premium

It should come as no surprise that unions raise wages, since this has always been one of the main goals of unions and a major reason that workers seek collective bargaining. How much unions raise wages, for whom, and the consequences of unionization for workers, firms, and the economy have been studied by economists and other researchers for over a century (for example, the work of Alfred Marshall). This section presents evidence from the 1990s that unions raise the wages of unionized workers by roughly 20% and raise total compensation by about 28%.

The research literature generally finds that unionized workers' earnings exceed those of comparable nonunion workers by about 15%, a phenomenon known as the "union wage premium."

H. Gregg Lewis found the union wage premium to be 10% to 20% in his two well-known assessments, the first in the early 1960s (Lewis 1963) and the second more than 20 years later (Lewis 1986). Freeman and Medoff (1984) in their classic analysis, What Do Unions Do?, arrived at a similar conclusion.

Table 1 provides several estimates of the union hourly wage premium based on household and employer data from the mid- to late 1990s. All of these estimates are based on statistical analyses that control for worker and employer characteristics such as occupation, education, race, industry, and size of firm. Therefore, these estimates show how much collective bargaining raises the wages of unionized workers compared to comparable nonunionized workers.

The data most frequently used for this analysis is the Current Population Survey (CPS) of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is most familiar as the household survey used to report the unemployment rate each month. The CPS reports the wages and demographic characteristics (age, gender, education, race, marital status) of workers, including whether workers are union members or covered by a collective bargaining contract, and employment information (e.g., industry, occupation). Using these data, Hirsch and Macpherson (2003) found a union wage premium of 17.8% in 1997. Using data from a different, but also commonly used, household survey—the Census Bureau's Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP)—Gundersen (2003) found a union premium of 24.5%. So, estimates from household surveys that allow for detailed controls of worker characteristics find a union wage premium ranging from 15% to 25% in the 1990s.

Another important source of workplace information, employer surveys, has advantages and disadvantages. On the plus side, wages, occupation, and employer characteristics—including the identification of union status—are considered more accurate in employer-based data. The disadvantage is that data from employers do not include detailed information about the characteristics of the workers (e.g. education, gender, race/ethnicity). However, the detailed occupational information and the skill ratings of jobs (education requirements, complexity, supervisory responsibilities) used in these studies are most likely adequate controls for "human capital," or worker characteristics, making the surveys reliable for estimating the union wage premium.

Pierce (1999a) used the new Bureau of Labor Statistics survey of employers, the National Compensation Survey, to study wage determination and found a union wage premium of 17.4% in 1997. Pierce's study was based on observations of 145,054 nonagricultural jobs from 17,246 different establishments, excluding the federal government.

In another study, Pierce (1999b) used a different employer survey—the Employment Cost Index (ECI), a precursor to the National Compensation Survey—and found a union wage premium of 20.3%. This estimate is for all nonagricultural employers except the federal government, the same sector employed in Pierce's NCS study (though for an earlier year—1994).

These two estimates of the union wage premium from employer surveys provide a range of 17% to 20%, consistent with the range identified by the household surveys. Thus, a variety of sources show a union wage premium of between 15% and 20%.

Since unions have a greater impact on benefits than wages (see Freeman 1981), estimates of the union premium for wages alone are less than estimates of the union premium for all compensation (wages and benefits combined). That is, estimates of just the wage premium understate the full impact of unions on workers' pay. A 1999 study by Pierce estimates the union premium for wages at 20.3% and compensation at 27.5% in the private sector (see Table 1). Thus, the union impact on total compensation is about 35% greater than the impact on wages alone. (A later section reviews the union impact on specific fringe benefits such as paid leave, health insurance, and pensions.)

Many "measurement issues" have been raised about estimates of the union wage premium. Some researchers have argued that union wage premiums are significantly underestimated by some measurements. Hirsch (2003), in particular, raises an important question regarding the rising use of "imputations" in the CPS. Information is "allocated," or "imputed," to a respondent in the CPS when they either refuse to report their earnings or a proxy respondent is unable to report earnings. Hirsch reports that earnings were imputed for fewer than 15% of the CPS in the 1980s but 31% in 2001. The method of imputing earnings to workers for whom earnings aren't reported does not take account of their union status, thus reducing the estimates of the union wage premium. The increase in imputations has, Hirsch says, created an increasing underestimate of the union wage premium. Table 1 shows Hirsch's estimates for the union premium in the private sector using traditional methods (18.4%) and using a correction for imputation bias (23.2%). Hirsch's results imply that imputations depress estimates of the union wage premium for 1997 by 20%, and that the union wage premium is actually one-fourth higher than conventional estimates show.

Union wage premiums and inequality

Historically, unions have raised the wages to a greater degree for "low-skilled" than for "high-skilled" workers. Consequently, unions lessen wage inequality. Hirsch and Schumacher (1998) consider the conclusion that unions boost wages more for low- and middle-wage workers, a "universal finding" of the extensive literature on unions, wages, and worker skills. As they state:

The standard explanation for this result is that unions standardize wages by decreasing differentials across and within job positions (Freeman 1980) so that low-skilled workers receive a larger premium relative to their alternative nonunion wage.

The larger union wage premium for those with low wages, in lower-paid occupations and with less education is shown in Table 2. For instance, the union wage premium for blue-collar workers in 1997, 23.3%, was far larger than the 2.2% union wage premium for white-collar workers. Likewise, the 1997 union wage premium for high school graduates, 20.8%, was much higher than the 5.1% premium for college graduates. Gundersen (2003) estimated the union wage premium for those with a high school degree or less at 35.5%, significantly greater than the 24.5% premium for all workers.

Card's (1991) research provides a comprehensive picture of the impact of unions on employees by estimating the union wage premiums by "wage fifth," where the sample is split into five equal groups of workers from the lowest wage up to the highest wage workers. As Table 2 shows, the union wage premium was far greater among low-wage workers (27.9%) than among middle-wage (18.0%) or the highest-wage workers (10.5%).

Unions reduce wage inequalities because they raise wages more at the bottom and in the middle of the wage scale than at the top. Lower-wage, middle-wage, blue-collar, and high school educated workers are also more likely than high-wage, white-collar, and college-educated workers to be represented by unions (see Table 2). These two factors—the greater union representation and the larger union wage impact for low- and mid-wage workers—are key to unionization's role as a major factor in reducing wage inequalities (see Freeman 1980, 1982; and Freeman and Medoff 1984).

That unionization lessens wage inequality is also evident in the numerous studies that attribute a sizable share of the growth of wage inequality since 1979 to the erosion of union coverage (Freeman 1991; Card 1991; Dinardo et al. 1996; Blackburn et al. 1991; Card et al. 2003; Blanchflower and Bryson 2002). Several studies have shown that deunionization is responsible for at least 20% of the large increase in wage inequality (Mishel et al. 2003). This is especially the case among men, where steep declines in unionization among blue-collar and non-college-educated men has led to a rise in education and occupational wage gaps. Farber's (2002) estimate shows that deunionization can explain as much as 50% of the growth in the wage gap between workers with a college education and those with a high school education.

Unions and fringe benefits

In and earlier era, non-wage compensation was referred to as "fringe benefits." However, items such as adequate health insurance, a secure retirement pension, and sufficient and flexible paid leave to manage work and family life are no longer considered "fringe" components of pay packages. Thus, the union impact on benefits is even more critical to the lives of workers now than in the past. This section presents evidence that unionized workers are given employer-provided health and pension benefits far more frequently than comparable nonunion workers. Moreover, unionized workers are provided better paid leave and better health and pension plans.

The previous section reviewed data that showed that unions have had a greater impact in raising benefits than in raising wages. This section examines the union effect on particular benefits, primarily paid leave, health insurance, and pensions. Unions improve benefits for nonunionized workers because workers are more likely to be provided particular benefits and because the specific benefits received are better.

Table 3 provides information from the employer survey (the ECI) about the impact of unions on the likelihood that a worker will receive benefits. The table shows that unionized workers are 3.2% more likely to have paid leave, a relatively small impact, explained by the fact that nearly all workers (86%) already receive this benefit. Unions have a much greater impact on the incidence of pensions and health insurance benefits, with union workers 22.5% and 18.3% more likely to receive, respectively, employer-provided pension and health benefits.

Table 3 also shows the union impact on the financial value of benefits, including a breakdown of how much the greater value is due to greater incidence (i.e., unionized firms are more likely to offer the benefit) or to a more generous benefit that is provided.

Union workers' paid leave benefits are 11.4% higher in dollar terms, largely because of the higher value of the benefits provided (8.0% of the total 11.4% impact). Unions have a far larger impact on pensions and health insurance, raising the value of these benefits by 56% and 77.4%, respectively. For pensions, the higher value reflects both that unionized workers are more likely to receive this benefit in the first place and that the pension plan they receive is generally a "richer" one. For health benefits, the value added by unions mostly comes from the fact that union workers receive a far more generous health plan than nonunionized workers. This factor accounts for 52.7% of the total 77.4% greater value that organized workers receive.

Table 4 provides further information on the union premium for health insurance, pensions, and paid leave benefits, drawn from a different data source (a series of supplements to the CPS) than for Table 3.1 The first two columns compare the compensation characteristics in union and nonunion settings. The difference between the union and nonunion compensation packages are presented in two ways: unadjusted (the difference between the first two columns) and adjusted (differences in characteristics other than union status such as industry, occupation, and established size). The last column presents the union premium, the percentage difference between union and nonunion compensation, calculated using the adjusted difference.

These data confirm that a union premium exists in every element of the compensation package. While 83.5% of unionized workers have employer-provided health insurance, only 62% of nonunionized workers have such a benefit. Unionized workers are 28.2% more likely than comparable nonunion workers to be covered by employer-provided health insurance. Employers with unionized workforces also provide better health insurance—they pay an 11.1% larger share of single worker coverage and a 15.6% greater share of family coverage. Moreover, deductibles are $54, or 18%, less for unionized workers. Finally, unionized workers are 24.4% more likely to receive health insurance coverage in their retirement.

Similarly, 71.9% of unionized workers have pensions provided by their employers, while only 43.8% of nonunion workers do. Thus, unionized workers are 53.9% more likely to have pension coverage. Union employers spend 36.1% more on defined benefit plans but 17.7% less on defined contribution plans. As defined benefit plans are preferable—they provide a guaranteed benefit in retirement—these data indicate that union workers are more likely to have better pension plans.

Union workers also get more paid time off. This includes having 26.6% more vacation (or 0.63 weeks—three days) than nonunion workers. Another estimate, which includes vacations and holidays, indicates that union workers enjoy 14.3% more paid time off.

Union wages, nonunion wages, and total wages

There are several ways that unionization's impact on wages goes beyond the workers covered by collective bargaining to affect nonunion wages and labor practices. For example, in industries and occupations where a strong core of workplaces are unionized, nonunion employers will frequently meet union standards or, at least, improve their compensation and labor practices beyond what they would have provided if there were no union presence. This dynamic is sometimes called the "union threat effect," the degree to which nonunion workers get paid more because their employers are trying to forestall unionization.

There is a more general mechanism (without any specific "threat") in which unions have affected nonunion pay and practices: unions have set norms and established practices that become more generalized throughout the economy, thereby improving pay and working conditions for the entire workforce. This has been especially true for the 75% of workers who are not college educated. Many "fringe" benefits, such as pensions and health insurance, were first provided in the union sector and then became more generalized—though, as we have seen, not universal. Union grievance procedures, which provide "due process" in the workplace, have been mimicked in many nonunion workplaces. Union wage-setting, which has gained exposure through media coverage, has frequently established standards of what workers generally, including many nonunion workers, expect from their employers. Until, the mid-1980s, in fact, many sectors of the economy followed the "pattern" set in collective bargaining agreements. As unions weakened, especially in the manufacturing sector, their ability to set broader patterns has diminished. However, unions remain a source of innovation in work practices (e.g., training, worker participation) and in benefits (e.g., child care, work-time flexibility, sick leave).

The impact of unions on wage dynamics and the overall wage structure is not easily measurable. The only dimension that has been subject to quantification is the "threat effect," though measuring this phenomenon is a difficult task for several reasons. First, the union presence will likely be felt most in the markets where unions are seeking to organize—the nonunion employers affected are those in competition with unionized employers. These markets vary in nature. Some of these markets are national, such as many manufacturing industries, while others are local—janitors and hotel and supermarket workers. Some markets are defined by the product—what employers sell, such as autos, tires and so on—while other markets are occupational, such as music, carpentry, and acting. Therefore, studies that compare industries cannot accurately capture the economic landscape on which unions operate and do not adequately measure the "threat effect."

A second difficulty in examining the impact of the "threat effect" on nonunion wages is identifying a measure, or proxy, for the union presence. In practice, economists have used union density, the percentage of an industry that is unionized, as their proxy. The assumption here is that employers in highly organized settings face a higher threat of union organization than a nonunion employer in a mostly unorganized industry. In broad strokes, this is a reasonable assumption. However, taken too literally and simply, union density can be misleading. First, it is not reasonable to consider that small changes in union density—say, from 37% to 35%, or vice-versa—will produce observable changes in nonunion wages. Any measurement of the "threat effect" that relies on small changes in union density will almost surely—and erroneously—yield little or no effect. Second, the relationship between union density and nonunion wages is not linear. Union density is not likely to produce any threat effect until some threshold level of unionization is reached, as much as 30% to 40%. That is, unionization of 20% in a particular industry may have no impact but 40% unionization may be sufficient to make employers aware of union organizing and union pay and practices. Empirically, this means a 20 percentage point change in unionization density from zero to 20 may have no effect, but a change from 20 to 40 will have an effect. Likewise, a union presence of 60% to 70% may provide as strong a threat, or ability to set standards, as unionization of 80% or more. Therefore, the relationship between union density and nonunion wages depends on the level of density: significant effects after a threshold level of density (e.g., 30% to 40%), a greater effect when density is higher, but no continued increase of impact at the highest densities.

The sensitivity of the results to the specification—a linear or nonlinear specification of union density—is seen in studies of the union threat effect. A linear specification assumes that small changes at any level have the same impact, while a nonlinear specification allows the union effect to differ at different levels of unionization—perhaps less at low levels and more at medium or high levels. In an important early study of the "threat effect," Freeman and Medoff (1981) examined the relationship between union density and nonunion wages and compensation in manufacturing. They found that union density had no association with higher nonunion pay (the relationship was positive but not statistically significant). Mishel (1982) replicated those results (p. 138) but also employed a nonlinear, qualitative specification (Table 4) that found large threat effects: nonunion establishments in industries with union density from 40% to 60% and from 60% to 80% paid 6.5% and 7.3% more, respectively, than nonunion establishments with low union density (0% to 40%).

Farber (2002, 2003) has conducted the most recent analysis of union threat effects, the relationship between union density and nonunion wages across industries, in the private sector. Farber's analysis, which uses a linear specification of union density (i.e., assumes small changes at any level have an impact), combines sectors where threat effects, if any, are geographic (hotel, construction, and janitorial work) and national (manufacturing). In one analysis, Farber finds a positive threat effect for the 1970s, 1980s, and mid-1990s. For example, the average nonunion worker in an industry with 25% union density had wages 7.5% higher because of unionization's presence. Farber's results show a lower, but still significant, threat effect in later years, though the effect on the average nonunion wage has diminished because of the erosion of union density. Farber also shows, not surprisingly, that the threat effect is greater for workers with no more than high school degree but minimal for those with a college degree.

Farber pursues much more stringent tests of the threat effect in models that use "industry fixed effects" in order to ensure that the effect of other industry characteristics are not wrongly being attributed to union density. Farber's results in this further analysis show a threat effect among all workers in the 1970s and 1980s but not in the 1990s. Nevertheless, threat effects still prevailed across decades for those without high school degrees and for those with high school degrees, and in the 1980s for those with some college education. For example, nonunionized high school graduates (the largest category of workers in the United States) earned 2.0% to 5.5% higher wages in industries with 25% unionization than they did in completely nonunionized industries.

The union effect on total nonunion wages is nearly comparable to the effect of unions on total union wages. Table 5 illustrates the union impact on union, nonunion, and average wages among workers with a high school education. Farber's stringent model from 1983 estimates that, for high school workers in a 25% unionized industry, the "threat effect" raises the average nonunion wage by 5.0%, thereby lifting the average wage by 3.8%. Assuming that unions have raised the wages of union workers by 20%, this raises the average high school wage by 5% (25% of 20%). The total effect of unions on the average high school wage in this example is an 8.8% wage increase, 3.8 percentage points of which are due to the higher wages earned by nonunion workers and 5.0 percentage points of which are due to the union wage premium enjoyed by nonunionized workers.

Two conclusions can be reached based on these studies. First, unions have a positive impact on the wages of nonunion workers in industries and markets where unions have a strong presence. Second, because the nonunion sector is large, the union effect on the overall aggregate wage comes almost as much from the impact of unions on nonunion workers as on union workers.

Unions and workplace protections

An extensive array of labor laws and regulations protects workers in the labor market and the workplace. From the National Labor Relations Act and Social Security Act of 1935 to the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 and the Family Medical Leave Act of 1993, labor unions have been instrumental in securing labor legislation and standards. However, beyond their role in initiating and advocating enactment of these laws and regulations, unions have also played an important role in enforcing workplace regulations. Unions have provided labor protections for their members in three important ways: 1) they have been a voice for workers in identifying where laws and regulations are needed, and have been influential in getting these laws enacted; 2) they have provided information to members about workers' rights and available programs; and 3) they have encouraged their members to exercise workplace rights and participate in programs by reducing fear of employer retribution, helping members navigate the necessary procedures, and facilitating the handling of workers' rights disputes (Weil 2003; Freeman and Medoff 1984; Freeman and Rogers 1999).

Unions have played a prominent role in the enactment of a broad range of labor laws and regulations covering areas as diverse as overtime pay, minimum wage, the treatment of immigrant workers, health and retirement coverage, civil rights, unemployment insurance and workers' compensation, and leave for care of newborns and sick family members. Common to all of these rules is a desire to provide protections for workers either by regulating the behavior of employers or by giving workers access to certain benefits in times of need (Weil 2003; Davis 1986; Amberg 1998). Over the years, these rules have become mainstays of the American workplace experience, constituting expressions of cherished public values (Gottesman 1991; Freeman and Medoff 1984).

Less well recognized perhaps, is the important role that unions play in ensuring that labor protections are not just "paper promises" at the workplace. Government agencies charged with the enforcement of regulations cannot monitor every workplace nor automate the issuance of insurance claims resulting from unemployment or injury. In practice, the effectiveness of the implementation of labor protections depends on the worker's decision to act. This is done either by reporting an abuse or filing a claim. Unions have been crucial in this aspect by giving workers the relevant information about their rights and the necessary procedures, but also by facilitating action by limiting employer reprisals, correcting disinformation, aggregating multiple claims, providing resources to make a claim, and negotiating solutions to disputes on behalf of workers (Freeman and Rogers 1999; Weil 2003; Hirsch, et al. 1997).

Evidence of the vital role of unions in implementing labor protections can be found in the research on various programs and benefits. Union membership significantly increases the likelihood that a worker will file a claim or report an abuse. Examples of this research can be found in such areas as unemployment insurance, worker's compensation, the Occupational Safety and Health Act, the Family Medical Leave Act, pensions, and the Fair Labor Standards Act's overtime provision.

Unemployment insurance

Unemployment insurance (UI) is a joint federal and state program that was created in the Social Security Act of 1935 to provide some income replacement to workers who lose their job through no fault of their own. Budd and McCall (1997) offer a cost-benefit decision-making analysis to explain the costs facing the unemployed worker in filing a UI claim. In a system with complex eligibility rules and benefit calculations and a lack of uniformity among states regarding these rules, the difficulty, or "cost," of obtaining information is formidable. In fact, the main reason that many unemployed workers never file a claim is because they thought they were not eligible (Wandner and Stettner 2000). The threat of an employer retaliating by not rehiring a laid-off worker might be another cost weighing on the decision to file a claim. Unions can help offset the costs of workers who are laid off.

Primarily, unions provide information to workers about benefit expectations, rules, and procedures, and dispel stigmas that might be attached to receiving a social benefit. Unions also can negotiate in their contracts layoff recall procedures based on seniority and protection against firing for other than a just cause, as well as help workers build files in the case of a disputed claim (Budd and McHall 1997). Additionally, the union-wage differential reduces the likelihood that unemployed workers will be ineligible for benefits because their pay is too low (Wenger 1999).

Budd and McHall (1997) have estimated that union representation increases the likelihood of an unemployed worker in a blue-collar occupation receiving UI benefits by approximately 23%. At the peak of UI coverage in 1975, one in every two unemployed workers received UI benefits. By the mid-1980s, the ratio of claims to unemployed workers (the recipiency rate) had fallen to almost 30%. Blank and Card (1991) found that the decline in unionization explained one-third of the decline in UI recipiency over this period. These findings underscore the difference unions make in ensuring that the unemployment insurance system works. Considering that UI acts as a stabilizer for the economy during times of recession, the role of unions in this program is pivotal (Wandner and Stettner 2000).

Worker's compensation

Laws governing workers' compensation are primarily made at the state level (with the exception of federal longshoremen), but they generally form an insurance system in cases where a worker is injured or becomes ill at the workplace. The employer is liable in the system, regardless of fault, and in return they are protected from lawsuits and further liability. Once again, lack of information about eligibility and the necessary procedures for filing a claim forms the greatest obstacle to receipt of benefits. Fear of employer-imposed penalties and employer disinformation are important other factors weighed by workers deciding whether to act.

As with unemployment insurance, unions provide information to workers through their representatives, and they often negotiate procedures to handle indemnity claims. Through grievance procedures and negotiated contracts, unions protect workers from employer retaliation and, furthermore, act to dispel the notion among workers that employer retaliation is commonplace (Hirsch et al. 1997).

Hirsch et al. (1997) found that, after controlling for a number of demographic and occupational factors, union members are 60% more likely to file an indemnity claim than nonunion workers. Employers and the private insurance companies that sell worker's compensation insurance policies have mutual interests in denying claims to limit costs (Biddle 2001). According to Biddle, higher denial rates lead to lower claim rates. The robust finding of Hirsch et al. demonstrates that unions provide a needed counterbalance to this interest.

Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA)

The Occupation Safety and Health Act of 1970 (OSHA) provided the foundation for the Occupation Safety and Health Administration, which enforces safety and health standards at places of work. The administration's purpose is to limit work-related injury, illness, and death due to known unsafe working conditions. They currently have only 2,100 inspectors to monitor over seven million establishments. Enforcement of OSHA regulations presents an obvious challenge; OSHA implementation requires worker action to initiate complaints.

In two studies of OSHA and unions in the manufacturing and construction industries (1991a and 1991b), Weil found unions greatly improve OSHA enforcement. In the manufacturing industry, for example, the probability that OSHA inspections would be initiated by worker complaints was as much as 45% higher in unionized workplaces than in nonunion ones. Unionized establishments were also as much as 15% more likely to be the focus of programmed or targeted inspections in the manufacturing industry. In addition, Weil found that in unionized settings workers were much more likely to exercise their "walkaround" rights (accompanying an OSHA inspector to point out potential violations), inspections lasted longer, and penalties for noncompliance were greater. In the construction industry, Weil estimated that unions raise the probability of OSHA inspections by 10%.

In addition to the findings above, Weil notes that the union differential could be even larger if OSHA's resources were not so limited. He claims, "Implementation of OSHA seems highly dependent upon the presence of a union at the workplace" (Weil 1991a). Following the trend of declining unionization, OSHA claims have dropped from their peak in 1985 of over 71,500 and are currently at close to 37,500 (Siskind 2002; OSHA 2003).

Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA)

Passed in 1993, the FMLA grants workers 12 weeks of unpaid leave in a 12-month period to care for newborn or newly adopted children, or in case of a personal or family member's health condition. The leave taker is guaranteed the same or equivalent position upon return. One of the most striking characteristics of the act is that less than an estimated 60% of employees covered by the FMLA are not even aware that it exists. There is also widespread misunderstanding on the part of the employer about whom the act covers and when it applies. There is evidence that this leads employers to reject legally entitled leaves (Budd and Brey 2000).

According to Budd and Brey (2000), union members were about 10% more likely to have heard of the FMLA and understand whether or not they were eligible. Union members were found to have significantly less anxiety about losing their job or suffering other employer-imposed penalties for taking leave. And although the authors did not find union membership significantly increases the likelihood that a worker would take leave, they did find that union members were far more likely to receive full pay for leave taken.

The biggest obstacle to workers exercising their rights under the FMLA—besides the fact that the leave is unpaid rather than paid—is information, since only a very slim majority has even heard of the act. With the exception of a $100 fine for failing to post a notice, employers have little incentive to inform employees of their rights. Unions are one of the few institutions to create awareness about FMLA's existence and regulations.

Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

This act, passed in 1938, had two main features: first, it established a federal minimum wage. Second, it established the 40-hour work week for hourly wage earners, with an overtime provision of time and a half the hourly wage for work done beyond 40 hours. Trejo (1991) examined the union effect on compliance of the latter part of the FLSA, finding that employer compliance with the overtime pay regulation rose sharply with the presence of a union. He hypothesizes that this result reflects the policing function of unions because unions often report violations to enforcement agencies.

Summary: union impact on workplace protections

The research evidence clearly shows that the labor protections enjoyed by the entire U.S. workforce can be attributed in large part to unions. The workplace laws and regulations, which unions helped to pass, constitute the majority of the labor and industrial relations policies of the United States. However, these laws in and of themselves are insufficient to change employer behavior and/or to regulate labor practices and policies. Research has shown convincingly that unions have played a significant role in enforcing these laws and ensuring that workers are protected and have access to benefits to which they are legally entitled. Unions make a substantial and measurable difference in the implementation of labor laws.

Legislated labor protections are sometimes considered alternatives to collective bargaining in the workplace, but the fact of the matter is that a top-down strategy of legislating protections may not be influential unless there is also an effective voice and intermediary for workers at the workplace—unions. In all of the research surveyed, no institutional factor appears as capable as unions of acting in workers' interests (Weil 2003). Labor legislation and unionization are best thought of as complements, not substitutes.

Conclusion

This paper has presented evidence on some of the advantages that unionized workers enjoy as the result of union organization and collective bargaining: higher wages; more and better benefits; more effective utilization of social insurance programs; and more effective enforcement of legislated labor protections such as safety, health, and overtime regulations. Unions also set pay standards and practices that raise the wages of nonunionized workers in occupations and industries where there is a strong union presence. Collective bargaining fuels innovations in wages, benefits, and work practices that affect both unionized and nonunionized workers.

However, this review does not paint a full picture of the role of unions in workers lives, as unions enable due process in the workplace and facilitate a strong worker voice in the broader community and in politics. Many observers have stated, correctly, that a strong labor movement is essential to a thriving democracy.

Nor does this review address how unionism and collective bargaining affect individual firms and the economy more generally. Analyses of the union effect on firms and the economy have generally found unions to be a positive force, improving the performance of firms and contributing to economic growth (Freeman and Medoff 1984; Mishel and Voos 1992; Belman 1992; Belman and Block 2002; Stiglitz 2000; Freeman and Kleiner 1999; Hristus and Laroche 2003; with a dissenting view in Hirsch 1997). There is nothing in the extensive economic analysis of unions to suggest that there are economic costs that offset the positive union impact on the wages, benefits, and labor protections of unionized and nonunionized workers. Unions not only improve workers' benefits, they also contribute to due process and provide a democratic voice for workers at the workplace and in the larger society.

— August 2003

Endnote

1. The ECI data and the March CPS supplements show different benefit coverage rates with a union differential in coverage lower in the ECI than the CPS. This may reflect that the CPS reports individuals' coverage while the ECI reports the coverage of occupational groups in establishments. The ECI overstates nonunion benefit coverage to the extent that uncovered nonunion workers are present in unionized occupation groups.

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Wow, impressive research. Did you know everyone in the army is bad also? I heard an army psychiatrist killed a bunch of people in Texas a couple of weeks ago.

PLAY THE GAME, UNION BOSS! DON'T GET INDICTED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B0kFEYQNyE&feature=player_embedded

Good article Rastabri. And I like the way the references are cited.

Okay watchdan here's your chance to show how big your brain is. Give your scenario for merit pay? What makes s good teacher according to your grand idea? Lastly what wii towns do when the merit pay system ends up costing more money than the current one.

Last I heard youtube as a source was less reputable than Wikipedia.

Rastabri, no one is going to read a 1000 word essay in that format. (I won't, anyway.) How about a link instead? Seriously.

PlayFair, you obviously don't/won't 'get it', with your apples and oranges comparisons and silly rhetoric. This is why you people must go. And you will....

AMERICA'S CHILDREN RANK 18TH IN THE WORLD IN READING SKILLS! THANK THE TEACHER UNIONS! WATCH HERE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNpDW9aSvKo&feature=related

PAY YOUR DUES, TEACHERS! YOUR UNION BOSSES NEED YOUR MONEY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBEdmeyCnXQ&feature=channel

At what point do the school committee members become personally responsible for the fiscally irresponsible actions in our city? Once they lose, maybe the city will smarten up and go after them for their shortfalls.

Watchdan do you homework and google the authors name and the names the many sources. The point is thatbanyone can find info to back a point. I once read on the Internet that Bigfoot lived in Vacouver and is a big fan of the Mariners and I saw in YouTube that aliens have landed and are running the world. In my opinion you have a credibility problem just as you probably think I have one.

You mean aliens don't run the world ?Then whats Oboma?

As far as merit pay is concerned, keep something in mind, the teacher EP posted about was not able to get away with what he was doing because of union rules, rather because he was an intimidating person who the principals and other teachers feared. He had the backing of parents and the rest of the community because he had a demeanor that the kids loved, parents thought he was a wonderful teacher, therefore this guy was able to gain the trust of parents and others by basically being this cool guy that everyone loved, all the while abusing little girls. The principal actually did try to fire him and PARENTS came to his rescue. It's actually a pretty sick story. Under a merit pay system this guy would have excelled.

It wasn't until a parent witnessed the molestation that the police were actually called. Even though the school district had a rule to destroy previous years records, complaints sent to the main office are maintained, no one sent any. This was not a case of union bullying, rather a case of weak people who allowed this abuser to get away with what he was doing.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=1499835&date=19920630

You should read up on these serious things you post.

Hmmm jethro those ears on Obama do look suspiously like saucers. And he does have that air about him being the savior and such, and can't forget biden who seems to have an awfull lot of problem with human vocal chords.

Hmmm have to think on that one a while. LOL

Jack

I Don't really think merit pay is the answer as I have said in the past well it is a nice Idea there is no way to really apply it. Since so many workers be it teachers or any industry have to learn by experience also which can take a couple of years for them to excel at.

Also because of the human conditionas we have seen many many cases of tenered teachers or professors who slack off to a great degree once they get it. This would obviously happen in cases of the merit pay once a person is at the level the decide they want to slack off. So you still will have the problem of workers in the system who arn't pulling their weight but reap the same benifits.

As far as the teaching profession I can see no way to apply it because it is to complex in dealing with the students minds you could never really determine true definite data on a teachers ability to educate each and every student. Some students want to excel some don't, some can't excel for many reasons, some could care less about learning at all, and some just do what they have to do to get by.

This applies to every grade and College. Well there needs to be some way to weed out the teachers hurting the system I have not heard an idea yet that would definitively do it. It is a lot easyer to do it in other idustries because there is a product be made or money being earned etc. The product hear is the building of intelligence in the human brian and that my friends is at this time impossible to equally manipulate.

Evidence of this is clear just by my post I allways did just enough to get by in school and decided the hell with it and quit, got a GED went into the military went to a trade school and still can't spell right or do grammer. Though I have dexlysia also which prevented me from even leaning the alphabet till 4th grade. Thats my point on all students being different.

Jack

wow after rereading my post the spelling of a few words are funny I really should use word processor since I still can't find that right mouse click people keep talking about on this site fro spellchecker.

Jack

Rastabri

Too bad, excellent article but far TOO MANY words for ImproveEP pr Watchdan to ever try to read.

Okay so NOW we KNOW that ImproveEP found reference to ONE teacher in Seatle, The NEA has 3.2 million members, The AFT has 1.4 million members. There are @500 teachers in East Providence.

So 1 (2 if you count Bristol) out of 4.6 million? You get better odds on the powerball.

As far as the "labor controlled" State Labor Board...they are appointed by that union hack Gov. Don Carceiri!!! There is not one single unbiased report that claims the board "favors unions"

I'll say that again; NOT ONE UNBIASED REPORT.

Felkners report is so statistically flawed it is almost laughable.

Besides Rastabri

That report is supported by way too many references and footnotes!

Our adversaries here could never track down that many references and facts to dismiss the article.

response to taxpayerEP

Just to be correct The labor board is appointed only by the Governor with the advice and "Consent" of the Senate, hardly enabling the Governor to put only his view on the board considering the the State Senate has to conset to the appointment and we all know the Senate rarely has any agreements with the Governor no matter who is Governor.

Jack

Jack

Which is it? The Gov. appoints? Or not?...Yes the Senate approves, BUT is the Gov such a powerless boob that he chooses only those pro-union hacks that the senate tells him to? Why would he even consent to make a choice that is contrary to his very core beliefs???

Response to taxpayerEP

Also to your point of adversaries though I dont consider myself that and you may. I did read what rastabri posted. I am still thinking about the response I want to post on that if any. I will say that well labor Unions are an intrigal part to worker rights and safety as the post clearly states. The studies are overall and wide.

Individual area's of the country and individual Unions are not all the same and this State has a big problem with the Unionleadship and the Management side to include the State lawmakers in being the most pigheaded give no quarter on both sides. In my opinion that has created the problems here in this state and it will never be solved without getting reasonable people involved on both sides.

That is the problem in a nutshell and neither side wants to admit it or change the status quo. Both sides believe they are right. The voters, legislators, the local politicians and Union Membership need to change all this and get people to represent them equally and fairly considering the Taxpayer is paramount to this since we are the real employers and do not have bottomless pockets.

That my opinon on this and I would hope many would agree and demand a change of Politicians local and state. and that Union memberships relize they need to do the same all this anger and postulating hurts the Union membership also by their own leadership that seems to be doing nothing different then the other side is.

Jack

Forgot to add that it is not about give and take on both sides it has to be about what is fair, reasonable and most of all financially responsible to do for the Taxpayers no matter what Union it is.

Jack

He would try to make a choice that the senate would consent to or they wouldn't consent to it and he would have to amke another choice. no different then what you see with appointments by the president its how it works. Sometimes you have to appoint even someone you don't agree with on every issue thats why its set up that way.

Jack

Jack

not agree on EVERY issue, but I woulkd think that he would want to appoint people that agree with him on this ONE issue.

If not, then he is a terrible leader.

I do agree with you that "Both sides believe they are right"...however I firmly believe that the answer lies somewhere in between.

Some think that ANY concession by the city to the union is caving in and absolutely BAD.

Some think that ANY concession by their union to the city is caving in and terribly BAD.

Logic tells us that neither side can be correct! SO the answer lies somewhere in between. Maybe the city has to give a little, and surely the unions can give a little.

ahhh but there in lies my point it the people in leadship and management both wont give and take they need to go. On both sides.

And on the Gov. if he could do that im sure he would but it never ever happens that way to much corruption in this state to have it be fair in any case.

Jack

revolt

oh and also you cant call him a terrible leader for the appointments not being people who would follow his line exclusivly because its not his choice, he picks but in the end as I said the Senate must consent to it.

No matter who the governor is if he doesn't get the votes in the Senate he has to compromise and pick someone else who is more middle of the road or at least has some views on what the Senate wants. It is politics in order to make the people have a say in the matter by those elected to represent them in the Senate.

It is not in the Governors power to tell them pound sand he's the man I appointed and he stays. Thats Dictitorial not democracy sorry but thats the way it works. Not trying to rile you or anything it's just the way it is.

Jack

Revolting

Don't fire till you see the whites of there eyes.

Hold the line boys, we will send these red bellies home .

Okay Dopey JoeSousa you and your buddy will soon rule Rhode Island and all of us new world slaves will be forever in your debt.

Fire

Look at them Red Bellies run

Dopey JethroJoe, don't hit the post comment button until you are all done typing your thoughts. You will know your done when the echo in that empty dome of yours grows even louder than usual.it's like wiping while your still crapping to put it in terms that you and AKA can understand.

Air support and arty inbound...fire at will!

Hup two three four, the Liberal Army marches on with there leader Rastaman leading the way.Company halt, at ease, smoke um if you got um.He pulls out his Obongo Bong and sparks a bud.Looking at the troops he says, Kawabonga Dude, lets get toasted .Oh yea, nothing like that Califonia Grass man,where are we. Fall out to the mess hall for chow,I got the munchies man. Aint Obongo the best? So the Liberal army in a fog of smoke, eats and plays video games, what a life.

Dopeyjethro are youbsuchba knuckle dragging moron that you don't see obongo as racist term. As I have told you numerous times I dont smoke weed and havent for over a decade. I guess my denial of such activity is not enough to appease you. Perhaps I should have the local police open up an investigation on me so that I can be proven not guilty. Now go polish up your scooter and go for ride and take that other racist twit Aka with you. No helmet needed when your head is empty or made from cement.

Hup two three four lets go out and get some more.the Liberal Army marches on to Smith Hill for the debate to make pot leagle.Left face, Parade rest,Count off, 1,2,3,4,7,3,9,1,Hold up dope heads can't you even count,How are we going to take over RI. if we can,t even count.

A by stander watching this replies You guy's must have went to school in RI. Good luck, Sad Sack!

Entertainment value -low

Common sense value-in the gutter

Talk about living in a fantasy world. It would seem that wm and jethro have that covered.

DopeyJethroJoe nice job on counting, couldn't get to ten though. What happened did youbloose a finger in shop class. Next time just take a shoe of and count with your toes. As far as legalizing pot, I say do it and tax it to raise some money. You should know that leagal is spelled like this "legal". One would think that with your wealth of first hand involvement with the legal system that you might have seen that word before. Now go take that scooter ride and be sure take AKA with you. He needs to get out of the basement once in a while.

Long Reviled, Merit Pay Gains Among Teachers.READ:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/education/18pay.html

Even Obongo Supports Merit Pay:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/05/259258.aspx

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan Supports Merit Pay. Says current union system "puts adults ahead of children"

http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderby/2009/07/08/duncan-advocates-for-teacher-merit-pay/

Actually, I don't care for merit pay either. If I suck at my job, why shouldn't I just get fired?

Get rid of tenure, get rid of unions in the classroom, and act like responsible adults by earning your pay.

Every time a merit pay system ahs been employed in the past from the 1860's on, they have met with failure. That is historical fact. England's system lasted the longest, over thirty years.

These systems always start out good and then progressively get worse.

The Minnesota system cited in the NYT article is only employed in a smll amount of schools and has yet to go statewide. If it works then I would switch my opinion of it, but it has yet to work in any of it's forms so far.

Okay AKA, since you are so good at creating stories, why don't you tell us about merit pay. What would your system be? What makes good teaching?Who will be the judges? How wil teachers of the severly handicapped be graded? How will political favoritism be taken out of the equation?Finally, what wil happen if merit pay system is more expensive? Well Watchman and DopeyjethroJoeSousa, minister of misinformation for the TCC let's see at least the outline ofbthr plans that you support.

Thats 150 yrs or so of experimentation and no success. I think another approach should be looked at.

Teacher Performance Pay a Bad Idea

Incentive Pay for Teachers May Have Negative Effect

© Jennifer Wagaman

Aug 18, 2009

Despite presidential support, research shows that merit pay is bad idea.

Teacher merit pay has been debated for many years. The basic concept is that teachers would receive a financial bonus based on performance. The million dollar question is how would that performance be measured? Inevitably there would have to be specific, narrow perimeters by which teachers are assessed to receive their incentive pay.

According Maria Glod in the May 7, 2009 Washington Post article "Budget outlines Funding for Teacher Merit Pay Programs", President Obama wants to pour "hundreds of millions [of dollars] for teacher merit pay programs." In fact, Obama "repeatedly endorsed performance pay plans" throughout his campaign for president. Arne Duncan, secretary of education, said that he "envisions performance pay programs that will give a boost to the best teachers and encourage them to work in struggling schools in high-poverty neighborhoods."

Research on Merit Pay

In an article published May-June 1998 edition of the Harvard Business Review, Jeffrey Pfeffer reports on some interesting research regarding merit pay programs. He tells us that "most individual merit or performance-based pay plans...absorb vast amounts of management time and resources... make everybody unhappy...and can actually decrease performance in tasks that require creativity and innovation." ["Six dangerous myths about pay" v76 n3 p109 (11)]

He goes on to state that the pay check is "just one element in a set of management practices that can either build or reduce commitment, teamwork, and performance."

This research indicates that Duncan and Obama, along with others who support the merit pay idea, are looking in the wrong direction for ways to improve the education system in America. While there are poorly performing teachers in classrooms, it may be the system itself that is broken, causing stellar teaching and improved student test scores a difficult thing to attain.

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Alternatives to the Teacher Merit Pay Option

While merit pay is not the best option for improving the school system, few would argue that the school system does not need improvement. Increasing salaries and working conditions are two ways this can be accomplished.

Salaried Pay – Teacher salaries, while indeed an extrinsic reward that could be lumped with the merit pay option, is in fact a vital part of keeping good teachers in the work force. Many teachers find themselves looking for new jobs with higher pay after just a few years in the classroom. Increasing teachers salaries across the board would be a more effective method of improving teacher morale and keeping good teachers in the classroom than bonus pay for performance.

Working Conditions – Many teachers will say that there is not enough time in the school day to accomplish everything required of their job. Because of the nature of the job, teachers often have to take hours of work home with them each night. This results in teacher burn-out, many times exacerbated by under-supportive administrative staff.

While there will always be those who are supportive of teacher merit pay, the research shows that in the end, there are other, more important aspects of teaching that need to be improved upon. In fact, merit pay for teachers may squelch the all-important teacher creativity as they look to improve only the narrowly defined performance marker

Find out why teaches quit and learn what else President Obama wants to do with the public school system.

Curious to know more about the problem with the public school system?

Watchdan, there are alot of these articles on both sides of the argument. You and your ideas loose creditibilty with most thinking people when you decide to use racist terms to describe those you don't like. Your use of Obongo and Rabbibro may seem funny or even witty in the minds of two shining lights like yourself and DopeyJethroJoeSousa of the TCC but most if us see it for what it is. Just another case of the Watchman proving to the world how dumb he really us.Watchman and UnionTeach, two sides of the same coin.

HERE IS AN INTERESTING 52 PAGE .PDF REPORT ON PERFORMANCE PAY FOR TEACHERS.

http://www.teachingquality.org/pdfs/TSreport.pdf

Guess i'll just say it again Don't know the answer but it sure isn't merit pay that can only work with a difinitive product in a totally controled enviroment with set produts and opition to allow a person to excel in either improving the product or the manufacturing process.

It has never worked in education and never will because the product is the human brain of children and until someone comes up with a way to make all brains the same and handle information equally it just can't be done. There is no way for a teacher or anyone for that matter to manipulate every child to learn every kind of information. If there was we would all have einstiens and Hawkens, but we don't and neither does anywhere else in the world.

All the statistics that anyone can quote or studies are just that theoretical assumtions based on the ideal situation. Do to political correctness you will never get the application of certain groups of people who cannot do as well as others and i'm not talking about race i'm talking about enviroment, family raising, income, and many other varibles.

It is possible there is no answer at this time but arguing over the same programs that have never worked is pointless in my opinion. A totally new approach never before used needs to be tried and if that fails you do another one. To keep visiting the same ground over and over is futile.

If you can keep breaking glass with a rock you come up with a new product to stop that from happening like lexan, you don't keep making glass thicker because a bigger rock will break it. Dont tell me about bullet prook and things the point is you start a new way not keep trying to improve the old way when it just keeps failing down the line.

Jack

oh and I don't have a clue what "bullet prook" is either but if it gets invented I want the copyright on the name. LOL

Jack

AK watchman, insm sure you have been told before that size does not matter and it doesn't matter how big your document is, I am sure I could google up a longer report but we know you wouldn't read it. As I previously asked, what is your plan. A intellectual like yourself must know all the details or at least an outline of a plan.

Get rid of the unions and teachers pay will drop considerably. At that point there will be no one applying for teachers jobs in RI. The conservatives say there is not a qualified workforce in RI due to the poor quality of schools. I disagree. I think the workforce out of the schools is of great quality - and they all leave the state to work. The pay in RI is not comparable to other states, so why should they stay.

Now the same will happen with teachers. Watchman will attack - just what do you do for a living????

We don't need to bust the Union's. We need to work for and elect good School Com. members. That goes for Council members and State Rep's as well. Good government takes work,if people are not willing to make the sacrifice, we get the government we have. How do you like it?

THE RI. STATEWIDE COALITION PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER TO CHANGE OUR STATE www.statewide coalition.com JOIN US LEND A HAND

You'd have to be really out of touch to think that teacher pay will drop with no unions. Even with all the legitimate greivences against unions the number one issue public school teachers have is the inequality of pay. If you were to get rid of the unions, which I might add is a foolish fantasy, they aren't going to go away, then what you would be proposing is basically the same thing as merit pay.

Treat our public schools like factories and that is exactly what you'll get. Teachers being managed by people like corporate managers. All they will be interested in is what are you doing for me now, not what they should be interested in like, what will you do with your future.

If we paid our public school teachers more, as they should be to bring them up to standards and required higher certification standards to justify the pay, then we wouldn't need a merit pay system. A solution that would probably take care of the majority of the problem, as well as the overall cost being lowered. This wouldn't pass though because that would mean less litigation for the lawyers and no need for union negotiators.

Without the need for lawyers and negotiators our school administrators could actually get some work done. What a wonderful idea, too bad it's just a pipe dream, guess i'll go baxk to my fantasy world and only wish it were different.

Merit pay is a generic term the devil is in the detail.There are systems that work well,not all fail. We have tried the higher pay model for years with 3 & 4 % increases every year.Time for the citizens to take action,get involved for the kids future.Pipe dreams don't get it done.

Please, read up on it will you. My god, it took me about an hr of reading to find out that every merit pay system, bar none, since the idea was first put forth over 150 yrs ago, i'll repeat that, 150 yrs ago since it's first inception every attempt has failed. Do you or anybody else think they somehow are smarter or have a different idea than all the people and communities that have attempted this since it was first theorized over 150 yrs ago.

UNIONS HAVEN'T BEEN AROUND THAT LONG SO THEY CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T WORK.

Read this, If at first you don't succeed, try try again.EP is making it work, and so will Tiverton.Quiters are loosers, don't be a looser.

You know, when you first wrote the word I didn't say anything because it is fairly easy to make a spelling error especially when you are angry, but after seeing it for the, I don'y know how many times, I feel it's neccessary to let you know that it's spelled, loser, you should get familiar with it's correct spelling because I think you are going to be familiar with the term.

"Read this, If at first you don't succeed, try try again.EP is making it work, and so will Tiverton.Quiters are loosers, don't be a looser. "

Thats actually the accepted definition of insanity there bud.

Oh, it's also quitters.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again.Who said they are doing the same thing.More then likely they are learning from others mistakes . That is what we call learning using the scientific process.

Live and learn.

A scientific process, in case you obviously don't know. Uses subjects that are far removed from the actual circumstances that are being studied. I don't know of any 150 yr long studies, do you?

More than likely you have no schoolage children and have no real idea of what it's like to worry about whether or not they are getting the best education that can be provided. People like you are the real problem. You think you have the best idea because it costs the least right now. You have no comprehension of the future as every parent must when considering their childs education. You are the one that needs to take your silly ideas and go away.

Medicine has been studied for thousands of years,there are plenty of examples of things that failed for years then some one came up with the answer.Don't be a quitter

You keep digging it deeper. Equating the education of children to the quest for better medications. Only a true moron would be that stupid.

I'm done, have to go to physical therapy in the morning. No more time for this.

Back to Basics:

1. It is a common union practice to file grievances and ULP charges when union leadership is unhappy. Does not matter whether they are legit or not; comes straight out of the playbook-simple push back tactic. It has been a common practice in the private unionized sector for generations and is no different in the public sector. The thought process is obvious: processing grievances and ULPs cost time and money; pile 'em up and management folds. Or so they hope.

2. It takes far more than an hour or 8 hours to research unionism in public ed. Tons of info out there, academic in nature, political in nature, pedagogy, whatever you like! Research has been on-going for years!! One can find research that supports or does not support a particular position on the value of unions in public ed. (Oh, don't be unduly impressed with citing references/footnotes: that is standard practice for researchers.)

3. Clearly private sector unions drove salaries upward; were pivotal in creating the notion that benefits become part of a compensation package; (too bad they forgot to count benefit increases as raises when the employer paid for those increases) had a role in safety standards (directly from industrial unionism (you know, operating in factories). Many of the changes the private sector unions demanded generations ago were needed. But, over time those demands outweighed the realities of the environment: that is precisley why there has been a dramatic plummet of private sector union membership; businesses dried up.

4. Right around the time that private sector union membership was plummeting, the union leaders looked to increasing membership in the (you guessed it) public sector. No coincidence.

5. But, public ed. is not a "profit center" and kids are not widgets. So, the union leadership are way overdue in adjusting their thought processes and tactics and really should consider that they appear very disingenuous when they maintain their position as it relates to EP yet claim it is not about the money. Why would they believe it is ok to be part of a 4ml deficit when they could be leaders at a momentous time by claiming a major role in operating in the black?? Or creating a surplus that could be re-invested in the classroom??

6. Supporter of the notion of performance pay or not; why is it ok for any employee to automatically receive annual raises for simply returning to a job year over year while still receiving a "negotiated" raise while still receiving an increase for course credits and longevity payments?? (How is this accountable to the quality of the education- it is clear that blindly spending more money does not equally equate to educational improvement.) This is how teachers in public schools have always been paid. Why is that ok for a mediocre teacher? Why is that ok for a great teacher?

7. We should not be arguing about teachers receiving great salaries-they should IF they deserve it.

I really find a lot of these posts to be nothing more then speculation on a subject they don't understand.Lets try to get informed on this, it's good for our schools.

wow give it a break guys your giving me a headache.

Geeze to guys typing after a football afternoon on the sciebtific elements of education. I'm retired and have no life guys whats up with you two today. LOL

Jack

Thank you smartenup, best post all night.

Hey jack, we had our Turkey run, 18 baskets, 75 bikes, 3 cop cars, 1 fire truck, all made our way around the rock.Lots of fun,and Jimmy Johnson won Nascar yea haa!

Notice the b in the word scienbtific meant to be there for Beer. LOL

Yea yea I know I really mispelled it but It was a good excuse right? LOL

Great Jethro I use to do the turkey baskets with the Middletown VFW it was great time.

Oh and merit pay won't work no matter how many people say it will I know because I dreamed it wouldn't so let it be dreamed so let it be done. Or in this case not done LOL

Jack

Well jack, I have a dream,and I won't let it go.A lot of people share my dream and are trying to make it work.Merit pay in a form that workes to make our schools better.Hear it on the mountain,praise the lord I have a dream.

Response to smartenup

I agree with what you say only thing I would add incentives for staying in a school system, incentives for degree's in seperate subjects, incentives for advance studies, incentives for awards or special accomadations. You will find these and many others in school contracts and other contracts. These monitary incentives are no different then a merit pay system and I submit that they obviously don't work because like everything else it is the individual him or herself that determine how good a teacher they are.

You cannot control that or the chidren learning ability. I still see no way to weed out bad teachers with out getting rid of future good teachers. As I have said before like children teacher also do not excel at the same learning curve. So it's back to the drawing board in my opinion to find a new way to improve education overall.

Jack

well a good dream Jethro I just cant see a fair way to make it work for many of the reasons I have stated in the last couple of post I have made. Would be nice but I will leave it up to you sings on the mountain. By the way what did you do with all that money for singing lessons LOL

Jack

Eyes getting heavy falling in to dream sequence ----Jethro is riding his bike along the coast, the warm air feel good as it blows open my half buttoned shirt.I enter a small town and decide to get gas and a bite to eat.The gas station has a bikini bike wash today with the patriot cheer leaders giving there all for the cause.As I sip on my cold drink and watch my bike get washed I say ah what a life life life ---og ouf crap back in reality where was I.

How about a nightmare though Im sure I'll be lambasted and derided fir this one. Supporters of merit pay over that last few year just to name a few were Nancy Pelosi, Harry reid, Ted Kenedy and Barrack Obama. Not that would scare the hell out of me ever wanting to have Merit pay for teachers if they are all for it. LOL

Jack

Jack in my plan the annual increase would be tied to increases in test scores.I would not try to give bonuses to individual teachers.I would make the union do it's job to insure all teachers perform there jobs to the highest standards.By tying pay raises to performance the teachers would have to push the unmotivated to perform or leave the system.If test scores go up they all get a raise that is fair and motivational

Not to throw water on it Jethro well alittle water anyway but that is the plan that Pelosi and kenedy were putting in to revamp no child left behind and the L.A. Teacher picketed her house on it but she still pushing it. My sticking point on that is the grading processes how do you tell if an individual student is learning and whether its the students fault or the teacher. I just cant see how you tell. by the scores. It only takes a couple of kids who dont like a certain teacher to screw the test up and mess up overall rating I would think. It just seem to me it would become a sysytem ripe for fraud by teachers and students.

Jack

The Demo rats plan is the same as the ones that failed,you can't do it on an individual basis.Scores go up they all get the raise,fair and equal.

Testing and the review by the school com. are all that is needed to decide if progress was made.The super is also a good judge to evaluate the system.We have the opportunity to make our schools better,we can't waste it with half truths and rumors.

Thats my point if the federal government mandates this when the approve the bill all this talk we have been doing will not matter anyway it is all a scam no matter how you look at it and you can rest assured the the Unions will do something to have it go to the advantage of them and not the students.

Well individual teachers may care about students Union Leadership does not or at the very least a small few do care. Most in Union Leadership only care about the all mighty dollar and benifits at any cost rather than fairess. And the management side cares about their own jobs and votes not the taxpayer we are only used to justify their excuses for not bargaining fairly.

Like I say many times on here there needs to be a cleaning of the house on both sides Union and management untill the these mindsets are removed from the equation nothing and I mean nothing can be done period. Thats my Opinion and I'm sticking to it LOL

Jack

Eyes getting heavy back to my dream---bike wash--- bike wash--- oh yea!------

Human race after teacher merit pay put into place by Pelosi.

Umm Grog want that

What grog want

Grog want that

What is that

Thing with bumps on top

Bumps on top

Yea me heard oog say it called uman

What you do uman

Me not know Just like bumps.

And so the Human race ended with no more procreation, God looked down and said not trying that again geeze what a bunch of maroons.

Jack

Oh one other thing I'm confused on is why some posters keep talking about Rhode Island teachers not being paid enough. It seems strange since they are number 5 in the country on pay according to the AFL-CIO study. And the difference between average salary in 2007 with Connecticut is only $2,619 a year, hardly a reason to say if we pay them what C.T. gets it will improve. So anyone care to explain how pay matters in the grand scheme of things.

Jack

Jethrojoesousa, the last time this came up you were against it. I remember because we so rarely ever agree on anything. did someone over at the TCC give you a new playbook. You say EP is making it work. Really so EP is currently using merit system.can you describe the system

that they are making work. You have many time derided the school committee around here and now you want them to be in charge of what is good teaching and who gets paid. Do you really think that idea won't turn into a political nightmare with the union working harder to elect friendly people. And do you really think test scores are the only indicator of good teaching.

Rastaman try reading some articles other then the ones Pat "the worm" Crawley gives you.I said the Devil is in the detail, read my post.Come to the meeting Tue's. night if your not too afraid to show your face.

Tue's night 7pm High school be there

Jethro, that plan of yours is exactly the type of plan that has failed for over 150 yrs of trying. I thought you said this idea of yours was new. Who is it new to, you.

I don't know how long it takes for you to read smartenup, but it only took about an hr of reading for me to understand merit pay systems don't work. I wasn't discussing the merits of unions, just merit pay, perhaps you didn't notice thats all I was discussing.

Rasta, jethro has flip flopped on many issues. As soon as he sees what direction wm is moving he switches.

R.I. education commissioner unveils sweeping reform plan

01:00 AM EST on Monday, November 23, 2009

By Jennifer D. Jordan

Journal Staff Writer

Gist

PROVIDENCE — State education officials have unveiled an ambitious plan to increase student proficiency, revamp failing schools, improve teacher quality and shrink gaps between low-income and middle-income students, even as the state struggles to dedicate enough resources to public education.

State Education Commissioner Deborah A. Gist shared a draft of her strategic plan with the Board of Regents for Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday. The 20-page plan is the result of more than four months of work by Gist, who became the state’s top schools chief July 1, and her staff at the state Department of Education.

The document is Gist’s blueprint for how she wants to improve the school system over the next three to five years. The regents are expected to endorse the final draft at a Dec. 3 meeting.

“I want the plan to be ambitious,” Gist told the regents. “I also want it to be doable.”

Gist said the plan is “a living document” and will be updated or modified along the way, as education officials gather more information.

“We need to keep our eyes wide open and be flexible,” she said. “In many ways, it represents not just the work that’s happened since I’ve been here, but also the work that’s gone on for several years. We are getting a little more ambitious and emphasizing … the sense of urgency we have about this work.”

The plan calls for several significant changes, including:

• Increase the state’s high school graduation rate to 80 percent by 2012 and to 85 percent by 2015, up from 70 percent.

• Make it harder to become and continue to work as a teacher in Rhode Island.

• Pay the best teachers more, based on data that shows they have improved student performance.

• Reduce achievement gaps by 50 percent among low-income and minority students.

• Expand online courses and develop a statewide virtual high school.

• Transform failing schools, particularly in low-performing urban districts.

• Develop data systems that help teachers improve their instruction.

The document also lays out an aggressive timeline for boosting student proficiency in English, math and science.

For example, just 27 percent of 11th graders score proficient in math on standardized tests. Gist wants 37 percent proficient by 2012, and 52 percent proficient by 2015.

Similarly, just 40 percent of fifth graders score proficient in science; Gist wants that percentage to jump to 50 percent in 2012 and to 65 percent by 2015.

She also wants middle school English scores to climb from 68 percent proficient to 73 percent by 2012 and to 80.5 percent by 2015.

Gist said her staff is still fine-tuning this portion of the plan, as they struggle to balance the need to significantly improve student performance with realistic goals.

A couple of the Regents questioned how districts could achieve these higher standards during a period when most schools are making deep cuts in programs and personnel, and the state is unable to increase its investment in education. In fact, Rhode Island currently relies on tens of millions of dollars in federal stimulus money to prop up school budgets — extra money that runs out after next year.

“This is our plan, regardless of whether additional resources come into play,” she said. “We are confident we are organizing our staff and redirecting the resources we already have to these priorities.”

Gist said she hopes the state will receive some additional federal aid in the form of Race to the Top funds, competitive grants designed to make states embrace far-reaching education reforms. Rhode Island will apply for a portion of the $4.35 billion in January, she said.

She also hopes, she said, that the state will adopt a fair and equitable school financing formula in 2010 that could help districts achieve these goals.

Since she arrived in Rhode Island, Gist has forcefully criticized the state’s low test scores and troubling achievement gaps between the state’s most vulnerable students — low-income, minority and special-education — and their more advantaged peers, calling such discrepancies “shameful.” Gist has also made teacher quality a cornerstone of her tenure, raising the bar for future teachers and promoting two other changes: an educator ethics code and rigorous yearly evaluations for teachers and principals.

More substantial changes are coming. Gist said the state Education Department will also move aggressively to help the state’s lowest-performing schools.

“We absolutely have a commitment to intervening comprehensively in our most struggling schools and districts,” she said. “What we are working on right now is developing our strategy to do that successfully.”

jjordan@projo.com

Wrong again Jaqdadi the us economy is based on this type of pay system.Get in the real world,live and learn.

"Get in the real world", jethro says. As he dreams of Patriot chearleaders washing his bike and then makes like a fighter pilot with his sidekick wm.

Yea right, i'm going to take advice from you.

What is it with you people that think any body with an opposing pov needs to learn? What makes you think only you have the answers and the rest of us are stupid? We are not talking about selling cars dip@#$%, we are talking about the education of children, something you obviously have no clue about. When is the last time you had to get a kid off to school or go to a parent teacher conference? These are children trying to grow up educated so they don't end up like you.

You cannot approach that like it's a car factory. Kids learn at different paces and teachers teach differently. This means that a merit pay system would cause a situation where schools would become like factories where employees get paid more for more production. That virtually gaurantees that the lower performing students and teachers would get shafted. The reason most school systems throughout the world use a gradient system, (K-12th grade), is precisely because kids learn at different rates and can't absorb evrything at the same time, so hopefully by the 12th grade they have learned enough to at least go through life with a basic education if they don't go on to college.

It is amazing how quickly JETHROJOE changed his mind on this one. Seems as though the leaders of the TCC have given the marching orders and JETHRO jumped right in line. JOETHRO I don't take my orders from Pat Crowley, I am against merit pay based on the fact that I have been teaching for over a decade and realize that each year and each student presents a set of a challenges unlike the year before. Some years we have great success other years we struggle. More importantly no one has shown me a system that will work.

I weigh many factors into deciding if I have been a quality teacher or if the others around me are quality teachers. It is very important that we educate the students but also important that we create hard working, critical thinking adults. Some may do horribly this year but may learn lesson about working hard and never giving up that may not come to fruition for several years or longer. Good teaching is hard to explain and even harder to judge. Fianlly JOETHRO, you mentioned having Supers and admin do the judging. Do you think Mr. Rearick has enough time in his schedule to visit eachteacher in the system a few times a year or would one visit be enough to judge. even that would mean at least one visit per day for everyday of the school year.

Sorry JOETHRO, I must have missed your response in which you explained the system that East Prov is using. You said that they were making it work and Tiverton can do the same. So go ahead and tell us all about the EP MERIT PAY SYSTEM and its great success.

Ok here’s what I don’t understand about these plans as posted by Helpful on what this “Gist” says

“Increase the state’s high school graduation rate to 80 percent by 2012 and to 85 percent by 2015, up from 70 percent”

Jack says; haven’t they been trying this for decades isn’t this said every year.

Pay the best teachers more, based on data that shows they have improved student performance.

Jack says; with our teachers number 5 in pay in the country isn’t it obvious the pay is not the problem.

Transform failing schools, particularly in low-performing urban districts

Jack says; haven’t we been saying this for decades did a plan suddenly appear that hasn’t been tried, they been throwing money at this for decades hasn’t worked.

Reduce achievement gaps by 50 percent among low-income and minority students.

Jack says; they been throwing money at this for decades hasn’t worked either

Expand online courses and develop a statewide virtual high school.

Jack says; Are you kidding me, who thinks kids will do this at home except for a small number of them and the cost of course will be large I’m sure.

For example, just 27 percent of 11th graders score proficient in math on standardized tests. Gist wants 37 percent proficient by 2012 and 52 percent proficient by 2015

Jack says; this one is really strange what happened to the impossible 80 and 85% in the first statement by “Gist” did realization suddenly sit in; you can’t have it both ways it’s one or the other.

“This post was done in “MS word using spell checker to satisfy those it seems to offend their intelligence when I don’t use it LOL.”

Jack

Also to add do they really have to pay someone to come in and say the same things every year after year that is never going to happen with the same old plans.

Jack

Watch and learn boys, your education is about to begin.Merit pay is on the way.

Very good jack, now I am again the worst speller on the site,thanks a lot. LOL

Jack, Don't be hard on our new Commissioner,she has a wish list that is backed with a lot of legislation and a lot of legislators.Give her a chance we might be suprised.

Once again JethroJoe, you said it was working in East Prov and could be done in Tiverton, so what is it that is working in EP? What is the system and what will be done to save the money for the town if this system

turns out to be expensive?

Hey Joethro, you are all over map on this one. Gist and the and the boys on Smith Hill are going to do all kinds of magic. Those would be the same guys who as you gave said in the past are under the control of the NEA and other unions. You can't have it both ways Joethro, are the union lackeys you claim them to be or not?

t

well i applaud you for your otimism and though I am not usually a pesimist I have no faith anything will change and hope to hell i'm wrong, but history normally proves to be right.

Jack

Rastabri this is me. ignoring you. The spokes person for the NEA. is a ney sayer,nothing worth listening to.

Jack ,history shows we are failing. Failing is not where we want to be in the future.The NEA and AFT have failed to deliver on there promise.It's up to the citizens to save our school systems.There is a strong reform movement in our state. People are feeling the pinch, and reacting, by getting involved.

Joethro, thank you for ignoring me. I guess you won't be able to educate me on the pros and cons of the merit pay system that you claim is working in East Prov. When the real thinkers at the TCC give you your script maybe then you can fill us in the merits of merit pay as currently seen in East Prov according to the words of Joethro.Don't worry Tivertonians Joethro and the TCC should have it all ironed out after Tuesday's meeting. Yes Joethro head of public relations for the TCC, I am a nayser about merit pay for teachers, think of all the variables that go into teaching and come up with a plan that adresses each problem with plausible solutions.

Finally Joethro, you may as well ignore me because you can't seem to reach into your cranium for any answers and you should just admit that your primary concerns are union busting and saving money, not educating the kids.

Jack

THANK YOU!

And Rastabri too....Merit pay, while seemingly enticing, has not worked in any community to date.

ALL CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT!!!

In East Prov we ask "how will you differentiate between the differences in classes from one year to the next? And from one classroom to the next? We here "We will place mechanisims that will ensure equity betwwen classes and grades"...Yes but HOW???

"By putting into place systems that identify differences between classes and grades"...Yes but HOW????

They have NO ANSWERS, on retoric and doubletalk.

Whats "working" in East Providence is a proposal for the 2010-11 school year with more questions than answers.

People of Tiverton, WAKE UP!

Using East Prov as an example for merit pay is futile!

The East Prov PROPOSAL is NOT in effect, there are still many more questions than answers.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:

He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;

He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:

His truth is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,

They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;

I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:

His day is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:

"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;

Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,

Since God is marching on."

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;

He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:

Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!

Our God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,

With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:

As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,

While God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

While God is marching on.

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,

He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,

So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,

Our God is marching on.

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Our God is marching on.

Thanks for clearing everything up Joethro. Now drive your scooter up to EP and find out about that plan. JoethroSousa proud minister of disinformation for the TCC has officially gone of the deep end.

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,

Let me hide myself in Thee;

Let the water and the blood,

From Thy wounded side which flowed,

Be of sin the double cure;

Save from wrath and make me pure.

Not the labor of my hands

Can fulfill Thy law’s demands;

Could my zeal no respite know,

Could my tears forever flow,

All for sin could not atone;

Thou must save, and Thou alone.

Nothing in my hand I bring,

Simply to the cross I cling;

Naked, come to Thee for dress;

Helpless look to Thee for grace;

Foul, I to the fountain fly;

Wash me, Savior, or I die.

While I draw this fleeting breath,

When mine eyes shall close in death,

[originally When my eye-strings break in death]

When I soar to worlds unknown,

See Thee on Thy judgment throne,

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,

Let me hide myself in Thee.

Oh oH taxpayerEP is thanking me I might be getting hit by a snow plow from tiverton shorty LOL Just kidding Jethro.

Like I said well it would be noble to have it work I will believe it when I see it work. Though I do think we will have some form of merit pay passing shortly whether it is a good plan or bad plan time will tell. No matter what any of us think however the fact remains that the teachers in R.I. are number 5 in the country for pay and have the lowest test scores in New England in our schools and Number 41 in that well Logic dictates to me that we have a more insidious problem here and it has nothing to do with teachers pay,

But it does have to do with teachers since I find it hard to believe that those on the front line in education in this state wont admit why the number 41 in scores and 5th in the country in pay and everyone from 1 to 40 do better. They have to know I sure don't, It cant be contract problems, it cant be the pay, every time I ask this in a post no-one answer it. Not that anyone has to answer me but geeze thats the answer I want from the politicians and the Teachers Union.

WHY ARE WE 5TH IN TEACHERS PAY AND 41ST IN EDUCATION

If we get an honest answer to that and solve it this whole merit pay ,contract, benifits, medical, would not matter to most I would think. Because no matter how you slice it either we are not getting our monies worth in this state and the other 35 states are getting a lot more for their money. Just once I would like to see the Union put somthing in a contract that actually benifits directly to the students.

Jack

Oh and I forgot that I have been reading the NEA standards and other Goverment standards and it seems the other states go by the same things for a state this small somthing is very fishy here and well I like fish this stinks to high heaven.

Jack

Anyone not accustomed to being evaluated with consequence will naturally be fearful of any pay for perfomance system. Then it becomes easy to find a million reasons why any program won't work. Well, the current system does not work. This system has unfortunately done nothing more than condition adults to expect raises, has created a sense of entitlement, has created a level of security that for some teachers has nurtured the notion that it really does not matter if they have lost the passion or the edge or the sense of urgency or the desire to improve their skills and subject-matter expertise. Gaining degrees, for some, has only meant the means to an end: another raise. Kids require differentiated teaching. Teachers require differentiated acknowledgement.

The fact of the matter as Jack mentioned earlier, is we are 5th in pay and 41st in education. The union bosses are unwilling to do anything about it, except ask for permanent contracts and have Borgia-like peolple in the classroom.

Even the very idea of a teacher's union is absurd, born out of the 'I'm OK, You're OK' garbage idealogy of the drug-filled 60's.

Time to end the experiment.....time has shown it to be a horrible failure, at the expense of generations of children.

Remove the union from the equation, and the collective IQ will improve.

Jack

Issue number 1 is that there is NO NATIONAL STANDARD for education.

What is "profecient" in RI (on the NECAP test) can be "above profecient" in a state using a different system. And many states do not have any testing.

A look at the NAEP test scores shows RI to be about the National average in Math and Reading.

Here is something to ponder when thinking about "pay for performance"

Say we begin "pay for performance" with doctors...

What standard do you use???

A brilliant doctor who specializes in terminal cancer patients could be found "failing" because most of the patients die. But what if his work actually lengthens a persons life? Or improves their quality of life while combating their disease?

One measure of "performance" would say his pateints still die, FAIL!!!

Another measure might look at what his work does to lenghten and improve his patients lives. PASS!!!

Now another doctor (with lesser skills) decides to concentrate on wealthy patients, passing out pills, etc.

His "performance" could be outstanding! Few of his patients die, PASS!! And his patients could rate him excellent because he gives them any pills they wish. PASS!!!

BUT he may be incompetent! YET "pay for performance" gives him high scores.

Maybe not the best analogy, BUT there are so many variables in education, from one classroom to the next, and from one child to the next that it makes Quantifyable performance measures hard to determine.

Okay, here I go again;

Little Johnny comes into the 4th grade class with "failing" math grades.

His aggregate score is say a 20...at the end of the year Mrs. Smith

has worked with Johnny...his aggregate score is now a 50!

BUT he is still failing, so she is given a "poor" performance rating.

Statisticaly Johnny has improved 150%, THATS TEACHING!!!

But the district sees only the "50", he is failing and she is rated "poor"

I agree, one year a teacher gets a class with more than the usual number of bullies and class clowns in it and their behavior affects the pace at which a good portion of the kids learn, subsequently the test scores for that class are on the low end.

The next year that same teacher has a class with mostly serious kids in it and the numbers will be different. The point is the amount of variables in educating children dictate the failure of any merit pay system. Those of us with kids in school really don't want to play too many games with our kids education. Parents play a major role in this and always have. Their fears are being usurped by panic mongers who only want to gain political capitol by saying we can make it work. It hasn't worked in 150+ yrs of trying. What makes anyone think they have a better idea, one that hasn't been tryed yet?

I don't want my kid experimented on. At least with the current system we know what to look for. Although the numbers can be skewed in any direction any group wants, the kids in this state may not be excelling as a whole, they are getting at least an average education. I'd rather have an average success than a total failure any day.

Last one;

Mr. Jones teaches in a class where the children are more affluent, they come to school prepared and well fed.

Little Suzy enters his 4th grade class with excellent math skills, she scores an aggregate 85 on the tests. At the end of the year she scores a 90 on the tests.

Is Mr. Jones a good teacher or a bad teacher???

Statistically Suzy has only improved less than 10% compared to Johhny who improved 150%. BUT Suzy is "Highly profecient" and johnny is still "Not prefecient"

NOW CLASS... PAY FOR PERFORMANCE

WHICH TEACHER SHOULD EARN MORE AND WHY????

I think a problem many people are having with this is the phrase "pay for performance".

How about:

1) pay for level of commitment

2) pay for level of competency

3) pay for level of effort expended

4) pay for level of cooperation

How about this:

1) Pay for level of cooperation, effort, competency, and commitment.

I think those are all valid points to be evaluated on.

One of the other problems with a merit pay system is evident to some degree in the story of the Warren soccer coach. Personal issues with certain teachers involvement with children would definitely become a driving factor. Whether he deserves it or not the parent\school commitee member would give this otherwise very good coach a bad rap simply by way of their own attitude.

Any merit pay system is too arbitrary to use in public education. It would be misused and abused as it has been since it's inception over 150 yrs ago. Teachers unions haven't been around that long. So what was the reason in the beginning to start doing it that way? Using the present unionised system as a scare tactic to get this implemented is just that a scare tactic. The implemntation of a merit pay system would only drive the cost of education up.

"jaqdadi" ............................... you and your "low bar" philosophy are pathetic!

It is people like you who are responsible for the East Providence School Dept. being in the shape it was a year ago!

A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf. Calling it something else is childish and misleading.

"low bar philosophy", a comment like that coming from somebody that would use a false label to sell an idea that would have a negative impact on the education of children. Please, go back to your cave and come up with something better.

"low bar" is the best I can come up with for your mediocre, at best, outlook on what you think should be happening in the EP Schools

What are you just sitting there waiting for something to come up to complain about or do you actually have an idea. I believe I only stated my opposition to merit pay, not what should be happening in EP. Please get your facts straight will you, before blasting someone.

Just another indication of why things are so bad in EP. People with no ideas on improvement maligning and misleading people with critisizm and rhetoric. No wonder the city government is in a shambles over there.

Go Mrs Rossi, I hope you can get things done in EP.

NOW I KNOW YOU ARE A DOPE !

hehehehe

The shape EP schools are in???

Let's see....before this SC took over we had a NATIONAL BLUE RIBBON elementary school, 2 high performing middle schools, a regents commended high school, and all of our elementary schools moderate or high performing!

Into that mix came Carceiri, Larisa, Cusack, Santos and the rest who deemed our schools FAILING!

And when one of our schools showed significant improvement in test scores, Ms. Barbosa decried that there must have been cheating! After all, her little darlings (Whom she showed off at the last SC meeting) couldn't do that well!!!

I guess she knows that the apple cannot fall far from the tree.

and now ImproveEP

How do you measure level of Committment?

Level of effort expanded?

Level of Compitancy?

You didn't answer the question in my example!

WHICH TEACHER SHOULD EARN MORE AND WHY???

Your 4th point is one of the real sticking points of the system!

Pay for level of cooperation!!!

In other words, Kiss A** and recieve more pay.

If the voters in EP give me the chance jaqdadi, I'll start making things happen as soon as I get there.

As long as Larisa keeps pushing through his agenda and Cusack and Perry keep voting his way, nothing is going to change. If the current school committee stays in place and the golden three stay in place, it's business as usual. More bad decisions, the city manager stays in place to do Joe's bidding (unless he finds another job to apply for) and no relief for the citizens of EP.

We have spent close to a million dollars on law suits so far. We just can't afford to keep these people in place. We need strong leadership that will work hard for the city to create POSITIVE change, not their own agendas. Work with our city workers. Think outside the box. Plan for our kids as they are our future. Stop hiring school administration help for six figures each. Clean up the budget on both sides. We've had enough of the bickering and power plays. We need results. Get involved people. Ask questions at the meetings. Hold the city management accountable. It's your money they're spending. You CAN fight city hall.

If the voters in EP give me the chance jaqdadi, I'll start making things happen as soon as I get there.

As long as Larisa keeps pushing through his agenda and Cusack and Perry keep voting his way, nothing is going to change. If the current school committee stays in place and the golden three stay in place, it's business as usual. More bad decisions, the city manager stays in place to do Joe's bidding (unless he finds another job to apply for) and no relief for the citizens of EP.

We have spent close to a million dollars on law suits so far. We just can't afford to keep these people in place. We need strong leadership that will work hard for the city to create POSITIVE change, not their own agendas. Work with our city workers. Think outside the box. Plan for our kids as they are our future. Stop hiring school administration help for six figures each. Clean up the budget on both sides. We've had enough of the bickering and power plays. We need results. Get involved people. Ask questions at the meetings. Hold the city management accountable. It's your money they're spending. You CAN fight city hall.

I don't think Brown is going to get any real public sector job opportunities. Thats one of the problems when things go in this direction. These guys know their reputations and political future is at stake, so they have to stay and try to fix it so they can look good in the end. Unfortunately that means more of the same because they just don't get it and keep making the same mistakes.

The only way to rectify the political situation is to vote them out and get people in that can make a difference.

varoom 94, it sounds like $$$$$$$$ when you talk. Where will all this money come from with the legislature cutting millions and Fed. stimulas gone.

PotheadBri,

I finally finished reading your annoyingly long pro union piece and I have this to say;

While all your points sound great for the 7% of the Workforce that gets those benifits it kills 100% of us who are taxpayers and consumers. Pay increases, etc for bloated municipal employees and the money grubbing bosses have raised taxes to astounding levels for every American. The same pay increases etc. have driven up the cost for almost everything we buy including the goods shipped here from the countries now making the goods we buy because the companies had to leave due to the same union driven money grabs...

Get rid of the unions and let the laws of the land protect workers. The jobs will come back.

Response to Jethro

From the newly developed money tree that has finally been reverse engineered from the Alien technology we found in 1948. Though they are still working on the intelligent expander for our children so we can do away with schooling. And lets not forget the anti-chist creating peace on earth in our time.

Then the new improved Healthcare plan to that will solve all medical problems and we will live to be thousands of years old. The earth will spin out of control and into the sun from the over population of living so long. Humanity will become extint and the federation of planets will look and say what a bunch of maroons. Quite obvious if you look at it through the eyes of an insane person. Bout the same why our politicians are lokking at it. LOL

Jack

Is that the same tree Congress uses,it's been picked clean.The plantation workers will have to work longer days.

New world order slaves "Crack of the whip waachhh" get to workin!

Glad you finally got around to reading the piece PIMPDADDY. I can tell that the Unions are to blame for everything in America. Lung cancer, AIDS, bad roads, old bridges, smelly farts, slow drivers,the war on drugs, the Cuban Missle Crisis, both Kennedy assainations and Jay Leno debacle to name a few of ways that we teachers have been planning the take over of world. I kept my response nice and short for you PIMPDADDy in the hope that you can get back to me in the next week or so. Be nice to your ladies now.

Why yes it is the same congress imagine that huh the very same ones who believe in raping taxpayer, lining their own pockets and their friends, taking money from special interest groups, allow soldiers to die well the soldiers wait in vain for more troops going on month 5, yes it is the same ones, destroyers of Life Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness. DISPICABLE ISNT IT.

wow rastibri i didnt know all that though I thought the Jay Leno thing was a conspiricy engineered by David Letterman. LOL

Jack

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time US National Debt Clock :

To Ms. Rossi: From the outside looking in it is easy to decide that the teachers union really, really were willing to find a solution. In as much as you admitted that you have not spoken with union leadership of the teachers, you have made clear that the other union leaders statements to you were believable so "it is so." There is an inherent problem with that thought process..union leaders are not responsable for balancingmunicipal budgets. They will always first protect memberships' economic status regardless of the city's fiscal issues. It is the elected officials responsibilities to maintain a balanced budget while delivering the services we pay for. So, you leave the impression that it is easy to work with the unions because they told you so.

Well, I prefer anyone interested in political office to dig much deeper, think in broader strokes and be willing to acknowledge basic realities. To date, I do not see those qualities in you.

To smartenup:

Here are just some of the savings we could have had in current budget –

For Starters

EPPD Original Savings Offer to the city: $1,300,000.00

EPFD Original Savings Offer to the city: $1,400,000.00

Temporarily Suspend Travel & Training Expenses Within The Budget: Savings $87,510.00

Temporarily Suspend Dues & Subscriptions Line Items Within The Budget: Savings $36,676.00

Total Budgeted Cost of Printing = $133,000…Utilize Some Printing Services at the EPCTC. It would give the kids practical, hands on experience and save us some money as well: Savings of at least $20,000.00

Buy Some Nursery Plants at the EPCTC… The kids produce top quality plants: Savings of at least $10,000.00

Remove Healthcare Benefits and Office Supplies for City Council. They are not full time employees of the City so why do we pay for their healthcare benefits?: Savings $49,500.00

Temporarily Suspend All Food Budget Line Items : $17,500

Have Human Resources Recruit On Craig’s List…It’s FREE, it’s country wide and anyone looking for a job looks here: Savings $10,500.00

Temporarily Suspend Miscellaneous Memberships Line Item: Savings $22,000.00

Don’t Hire Temporary Lawyers & Utilize The Lawyers Already On Payroll: $132,000.00

Budget could have saved: $3,085,686

Some money we’ve wasted so far this year

Police Department: $107,000 and climbing

$45,000 to have the State Police evaluate the EPPD and Lt. Studley told the city manager the department runs fine but could use a little real leadership. He also suggested hiring four more officers to reduce overtime.

•That apparently wasn’t what he wanted to hear so he ordered a data report to give him the answer he did want and laid off 13 instead. That report cost $22,000.00 from a company his son works at.

Overtime to cover the 13 laid off officers was well over $40,000

(…waiting for the numbers to come in for legal fees)

School Department: $1,100,000 and climbing

Legal Fees are over $500,000 so far

New positions in administration: $600,000

(…and I haven’t even found out what it cost to build their new offices yet)

That’s approximately $4.3 MILLION DOLLARS that we didn’t have to spend and there’s much more where that came from. I give the impression that it is easy to work with the unions because they are actually not the monsters you seem to think they are. Many of the good people who work for the city were born and raised here and still live here. Their children go to school here. They pay taxes here. Just because they work for the city, that doesn’t make them bad people out to stick it to the city. They have a vested interest in this city and want it to succeed just as badly as everyone else. It is my opinion that the city government has not worked hard enough to bring forth positive change. With the State cutting our funding and the rising cost of healthcare, utilities and fuel, we have major problems. Business as usual will not work in these unusual times. We need strong, positive leaders who can think outside the box and we need them now.

Ladies and Gentlemen, step right up and hear about the cure of the century.Why this product will cure it all,head aches to hang nails, my snake oil is the cure.Why with this product you will save millions and all will be well.Varoom #5 the cure of the century,who want a bottle how about you mam.You sir do you want to fix the city step right up.

{reply} No thank you. I'll keep my money in my pocket.FLIM FLAM!

JOETHRO spokesperson for the TCC, it seems especially funny that you would adopt the role of snake oil salesmen or carnival huckster. It seems very appropriate that you as TCC spokesperson would be offering a false cure all. That is exactly what the TCC in pushing with this merit pay and union busting idea. JOETHRO once again you said EAST PROV has a system and it is working, please tell us more about that system. Surely you must have looked into the sysytem that they are using as an example for your TCC folks to talk about at last night meeting. After last nights meeting there must be at least an outline for a plan in place. What does the system look like and will you be one of the evaluators of good teaching and educational progress.

Rastabri spokes person for the NEA.Do your own research,live and learn.

Smartenup

It is easy from the outside looking in to decide that the SC did "negotiate" in good faith....What did they have to gain by lieing?

Well, they let the contract lapse so they could IMPOSE pay cuts and benifit changes they wanted.

Keep drinking that Larisa Koolaide!!!

There is an old saying among farmers, "The two biggest lies are...

The check is in the mail, AND I'm from the government and I am here to help you!"

Many people here in EP now know that Larisa, Carceiri, Cusack, Santos, et al are from the government, and they aren't here to help you.

jethro, that is exactly the attitude that keeps us from going forward. All the facts above can be verified in the city budget and finance department if you don't want to believe me. I spent countless hours digging through the budget. There are many ways to save money but no one seems to want to put in much effort to cut the smaller items. They're looking for the quick fix and it's not there. Should the teachers win in court, this city is in for it. There's no back up plan for our council except file bankruptcy and the auditor general has made it quite clear that we are not a candidate for bankruptcy. That will leave them with no choice but to raise taxes double digits.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD SO MANY PEOPLE SPEAKING WITH SUCH AUTHORITY AND CONVICTION ............................ WHEN IN FACT MOST OF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

PARTIAL TRUTHS ......................... INCOMPLETE INFORMATION ....................... MOST OF YOU HAVE "AN AXE TO GRIND" (BIASED) ............................ INTENTIONAL MIS-INFORMATION (AXE TO GRIND)

THESE "MONSTERS" FROM THE GOVERNMENT, CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHY THEY WOULD HAVE IT IN FOR TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, AND FIREMEN?

WHY DO THESE "MONSTERS" WANT TO HARM THESE PEOPLE?

JOETHRO, you say do my own research. Well I have. I have my research, it is over a decade of teaching experience in both public and private schools. What research have you done? Basically what you are saying is that I should stop asking you a question for which you have no answer. You clearly stated that East Providence has a working merit pay system which we all know is a JOESOUSA TCC minister of misinformation falsehood.

JOETHRO what is your research. Being fed articles and talking points by your handlers at the TCC is not research. Live and learn JOETHRO use your head for something other than a place to keep your scooter helmet.

D.C. Schools Chief Michelle Rhee Targets ‘Sacred Cow’ of Tenureby Kyle Olson

If President Obama is really serious about education reform, he ought to consider putting D.C. school Chancellor Michelle Rhee in charge of the effort.

This lady is not afraid of a major challenge, as evidenced by her latest brawl with the AFT.

Rhee is courageously targeting the sacred cow of teachers unions – tenure. It’s the system that pretty much guarantees a teacher a job for life, if he or she can make it through the first few years. It doesn’t matter if they go on to become good, mediocre or bad teachers. With tenure, they are pretty much protected until retirement.

But Rhee understands that such a system can no longer be tolerated in Washington D.C. schools, which have a dropout rate of nearly 40 percent. She knows that the school district must have the power to sift through the teaching staff, keep the good ones, work with the middle-of-the-roaders, and get rid of the bad apples.

She also understands that it has to work both ways. She’s willing to develop a compensation system that would offer teachers much higher pay, in exchange for the union abandoning, or at least reforming, the concept of tenure.

We have no problem with that at all. Teachers are extremely important in our society, and good ones deserve to be paid like the vital professionals they are. While schools throughout the nation are struggling with their budgets, we’re sure that most would be happy to find the money to increase teacher salaries, if only they had to power to pick and choose what teachers to keep.

Rhee has already backed up her words with action. Earlier this year she hired more than 900 new teachers for the district, then weeks later laid off 266, citing budget constraints. But the layoffs weren’t limited to the recent hires. She made cuts based on ability, not seniority, a move that drove the AFT into court to challenge Rhee’s decision.

According to the Wall Street Journal, AFT President Randi Weingarten said Rhee “has so poisoned the environment that I am not sure that we can ever get back to a good situation here.”

That’s where you’re dead wrong, Ms. Weingarten. Rhee’s “poison” is exactly the proper remedy to get D.C. schools back on track, and restore public confidence in the district.

Families aren’t interested in a teacher’s longevity, Ms. Weingarten. They want to know if that teacher can manage to help their children reach their potential, and if not, then he or she no longer belongs in a classroom.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE RESISTANCE TO CHANGE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT ASKS FOR MORE FROM A PARTICULAR GROUP!

THE "MONSTERS" ARE TRYING TO FIX A BROKEN, IN-BRED CITY THAT HAS FALLEN INTO TOTAL DIS-REPAIR.

ANY ONE OF THOSE 'MONSTERS' HAS MORE BRAINS AND BUSINESS EXPERIENCE IN THEIR LITTLE FINGER THAN ALL OF YOU DISSENTERS PUT TOGETHER!

How ironic is it that the title of the above article is, "The union’s self-serving strategies", and we have Christine Rossi, AKA 'varoom' here desperately trying to come up with a platform that doesn't reveal her self-serving union interests?

YEAH ......................... LETS SEE HOW WE ARE GOING TO FIX THE FISCAL PROBLEMS OF EAST PROVIDENCE BY CHARGING $100 PER "FUN BOOTH" AT A WATERFRONT "CARNIVAL"

PLEASE ........................... YOU ARE WAY, WAY OVER YOUR HEAD IN THIS ARENA!

UNION INTERESTS = SELF SERVING

SELF SERVING = UNION INTERESTS

THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME!

1) UNIONS FIGHT AND SQUEEZE FOR MORE MONEY FOR THEIR MEMBERS (TEACHERS UNION - POLICE UNION - FIREMENS UNION)

2) WHERE DOES THAT MONEY COME FROM WHICH GOES TO THESE GREEDY UNIONS?

3) IT COMES FROM THE ANNUAL TAXES PAID BY THE HARDWORKING TAXPAYERS

4) IF YOU WANT TO PAY HIGHER ANNUAL TAXES, THEN SUPPORT THE UNIONS AND THE POLITICAL CANDIDATES THAT THEY SUPPORT AND WANT ELECTED. YOU WILL THEN PAY HIGHER TAXES.

I GUARANTEE YOU THAT!

5) IT'S REALLY JUST THAT SIMPLE !

11/5/09, 11:34 AM

improveEP...I'm all for fixing a broken system but at what cost? Bankrupt the city to get the agenda pushed through? I vote NO. Creating six figure positions at top levels while taking away pay from people who make half that? I vote NO. Don't talk down to us little folks who have to live with the decisions of you well educated business types. Larisa's been on the council for a collective 12 years or so with his fancy suits and superior education and look where that has gotten us. The council has to approve the budgets. He hasn't been throwing that around has he. He voted for most of the budgets that have led up to this.

And how ironic is it, that Rossi's "Carnival of Change" will require union cop overtime details? How nice for her husband John Rossi, the cop union president.

"A new survey of nine hundred and twenty-five (925) labor economists conducted by the University of New Hampshire Survey Center for the Center for Union Facts illustrates a growing consensus among experts that increased unionization will have a negative effect on the economy."

http://laborpains.org/index.php/2009/08/12/new-university-survey-of-labor-economists-shows-overwhelming-opposition-to-efca-binding-arbitration/

THANKS UNION BOSSES!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuKjZyZH_8&feature=player_embedded

You're free to spin it any way you'd like...those figures don't lie. As much as you'd like people to think so, I'm not over my head. Anyone with a calculator can go through this year's budget and find some savings. The fun booths are just a few ideas to help defray the cost of the budget line item for public celebrations. You'll find in under parks and recreation if you open the budget. I don't see your plans listed here...Why don't you share...

"THE "MONSTERS" ARE TRYING TO FIX A BROKEN, IN-BRED CITY THAT HAS FALLEN INTO TOTAL DIS-REPAIR"

THATS WHAT IMPROVE EP THINKS OF THE PEOPLE OF EAST PROV, INBRED PEOPLE, YEAH IMPROVE EP IS REAL GREAT SPOKESPERSON FOR LARISSA.

“What’s Wrong With Merit Pay”

Friday May 01st 2009, 2:38 pm

Filed under: Education, Politics, Public School, Standardized Testing, Students, Teachers, k-12

Diane Ravitch and Deborah Meier write an insightful blog for Education Week called Bridging Differences. They write their posts in the form of letters back and forth to each other, arguing like educated, rational humans about topics in education.

Recently up was a letter from Diane Ravitch to Deborah Meier about merit pay for teachers: What’s Wrong With Merit Pay. Ravitch had some excellent points about the teacher compensation reform issue, most of which are along the same lines as my own view on the subject, but she adds a whole extra layer of nougat-y goodness to the argument against merit pay:

There are several reasons why it is a bad idea to pay teachers extra for raising student test scores:

*First, it will create an incentive for teachers to teach only what is on the tests of reading and math. This will narrow the curriculum to only the subjects tested.

*Second, it will encourage not only teaching to the test, but gaming the system (by such mechanisms as excluding low-performing students) and outright cheating.

*Third, it ignores a wealth of studies that show that student test scores are subject to statistical errors, measurement errors, and random errors, and that the “noise” in these scores is multiplied when used to make high-stakes personnel decisions.

*Fourth, it ignores the fact that most teachers in a school are not eligible for “merit” bonuses, only those who teach reading and math and only those for whom scores can be obtained in a previous year.

*It ignores the fact that many factors play a role in student test scores, including student ability, student motivation, family support (or lack thereof), the weather, distractions on testing day, etc.

*It ignores the fact that tests must be given at the beginning and the end of the year, not mid-year as is now the practice in many states. Otherwise, which teacher gets “credit,” and a bonus for score gains, the one who taught the student in the spring of the previous year or the one who taught her in the fall?

Posted by Alexa Harrington

image credit

The fact of the matter, Ms. Rossi, is that you came out of the gate trying to remove Mr. Brown for his laying off of the 13 police officers. THAT and your connection to the union president, shows what your REAL intentions are.

Therefore, any spin that YOU put on what your REAL intentions are, are moot to the individual capable of the simplest thought, and discredit any seemingly proper intention.

Step One: Remove the public sector unions, and encourage competition. That in itself will save untold millions.

Step Two: Remove/Replace career politicians.

Step Three: Balance the budget.

Simple.

And here we have 'Rastabri', a union teacher posting on the internet at 10am during a school day.

Ms. Rossi: Please dig deeper. The record of the arbitration hearings reflect the fact that the union was called out, by the deciding arbitrator, for inaccurate math..he made clear that their stated savings was indeed false. The union's offer was not a long-term, structural savings. It was a one time offer WITH the caveat of more spending in the 2nd/3rd year of their proposal. So, it resulted in a net INCREASE, not net SAVINGS. The school committee needed long-term structural savings. That is not what the union offered.

Diane Ravitch's take on evaluating teachers strictly based on test scores makes sense. I have spoken with her on this topic in the past.

An evaluation of teachers must be mulit-dimensional and must track students. There is a solution to rigorous, meaningful evaluations and a pay for performance program for all teachers. I think it can be found when stakeholders are willing to find it.

The fact of the matter, Mr. Watchman, is that the city manager has made one bad decision after another for this city and was interviewing with the town of Plymouth for another job (who passed him over). Those are my real intentions. How can we trust a city manager that's not interested in the best interests of the city? He's only looking out for his own best interest so the next town he moves to will pay him to do more of the same. He does seem to move around a lot. I've been here for 40 years. I want this city to thrive, not just get by.

smartenup

WHAT??

Where did you get that information? Not in East Providence!!!

The arbitrator's ruling was approved by the teachers and rejected by the SC.

I have a copy of the arbitrator's ruling, there is nothing where they state that the "stated savings" were false.

Drink some more Larisa Koolaide....

The FACTS just don't support your opinions,

You, sir are mistaken. There exists volumes of the hearing, transcripts, laying out the voluminous information and statements made during those arbitration hearings. That is where the information is contained.

The ruling was lawfully rejected because it required the district to continue to deficit spend, because it did not provide long-term structural savings.

There is no need to communicate with a koolaide reference.

A few weeks ago, the conservative Manhattan Institute released a study showing that merit pay had no impact on test scores in 200 schools in New York City that are trying it. In fact, scores went down in larger schools that offered bonuses. This little experiment in schoolwide bonuses is costing taxpayers $20 million a year.

from Diane Ravitch

“Is it possible to have an education system that mis-educates students while raising their test scores?” Ravitch asks. ”Yes, I think it is. We may soon prove it.”

Welcome to EAST PROVIDENCE the Carceiri way.

Huh, I think the district is operating in the black, has improved on accreditation progress reports, has reinvested in textbooks for our students, has improved the technology for our teachers and students,

has created a partnership with Bradley that is good for our students and the district's bottom line.

WATChturd I am posting from my mobile phone while in my car in route to Virginia. But I also have a 22 minute lunch or free period at work.

Smartenup:

"I think the district is operating in the black" I'll wait for the auditor's reports.

"has improved on accreditation progress reports" Yep, we replaced the doors with money we didn't have...

"has reinvested in textbooks for our students" Those textbooks aren't in the student's hands yet, and it is almost December.

"has created a partnership with Bradley that is good for our students"

And benifit's Bradleys bottom line too! We are paying $40,000 per kid.

This program is excellent, but real savings haven't been proven as of yet.

All of the merit programs shown in these posts are not what a RI plan would look like. Because we have no money to add too the pot.The programs that are developed will be scaled down, and more directed to needs Get a grip NEY SAYERS!

Varoom I am sorry for making fun of you I will read and learn as the campain goes on.I can't vote for you because I live else where.I am a friend of Joe L. and support him.Wish you luck in your endevor.

PS some of my best friends moms were Italian. I used to love to eat supper at there houses.

According to Carceiri, the East Providence Plan will INCREASE the best teachers pay to over $80,000!!!!

BUT as you say Jethro; there is no money in the pot.

The state is short 300 mill next year ,or did you not hear.

EP is using the money they saved to make the program work,did you know that?

My children were read to constantly at home helped with homework answers to questions and explanation on anything were given, If the answer was unknown the were shown how to find it themselves in books or the internet when it became an information tool.

My home was open to many kids over the years and still is though most are adults no around 20 to 25. They still stop by they send cards are very respectful. From the time these kids were just becoming teenagers they came to my home to watch pay per view to play music in the various bands they were starting.

I'm not talking about a few kids it have been well over 60 of them over the years. Their parents were always met by us as a requirement for them to hang out here. In all the kids only 2 ever started smocking and having a beer as of yet. No smoking or beer was ever allowed at this home by these kids.

They never left hungry I cooked many huge Sunday morning break feast for sometime 10 or 15 at once. If they were ever hungry they new they need only ask. Yes it was good to be here do to the extensive music knowledge available here and equipment that could be used and borrowed. There are many bands playing around New England with members that’s started here.

The vast majority of these kids have gone to and are graduates of colleges. And have jobs. They also were required to contribute to the electric bill here as it was enormous well over 10,000 watts of power cost a lot. LOL When I moved here 22 years ago I went to every neighbor within a few thousand feet and informed them that music would be played here and when my kids who were babies at the time would continue it and all kids obeying rules would be doing it for years to come. Any complaints I would handle personally all that was required was a call to me or my wife not the police.

Do I think we shaped young minds and helped many parent who did not want to cope with a lot of this, yes I do. Every kid who came here from all three towns new my life story which I will not go into but it was one of shall we say very colorful and education was no priority for me, Personally I think that scared a few of them and finishing school was stressed as a priority to them so as not to go through what I did. Every kid is a graduate.

When you say parents need to be involved you are correct in that it is paramount, but with the 2 parent working system it hard for parents to do. Fortunately for 25 years I worked 24 hours one duty and 24 hours off duty. Every 7 days of work which took 2 weeks I had 3 days in a row off. So this allowed me to be home a lot, my wife worked a regular job be we always made these kids well come morning noon and night.

This society needs to have help from everyone that can like this Parents can not do it themselves in every case and a neighbor that has opportunity to help I would recommend it fells good to see the results. I and my wife are not perfect and have same problems everyone else has at home with kids over the years but we try to do the best we can with what we have had.

If more off this was done the young would be better off and hopefully develop the same values we decided to have and it is decide by the individual you just have to show them it works and is the right thing to do. Education is of little use with out a life experience and the knowledge of success and failures being known to these kids especially those of the family history of the parents.

I could go on this never ending but I think you all get my point of do what you can for your own and others this society has become laced with stupidity and challenges that these kids will always have trouble overcoming and it is only going to get worse. The uncaring attitude in these school systems can never be overcome when there are too few that do care in it. So help your kids and neighborhood kids it is a good thing to do. Not all will learn not all will turn out well but if you try at least you can say you tried not watched from the sidelines and blame others.

For those who complain about me pasting the same post I right on stories that concern the same type of things I will be doing that to this it takes to long to keep typing all the time and I spell like crap. and the grammer is even worse most times though spell check was used on it after the first post. LOL

Jack

Thank you jethro. I think you will find that I try to examine every angle before I open my mouth. Anyone who knows me would agree that I may be a lot of things but liar isn't one of them. I may get a seat on the council or I may not but, I will not be going away any time soon. I plan to keep digging and talking to people who know more than I do to find the answers that will lead this city in a positive way. There's always going to be someone smarter but all I can do is be the best me I can be and that will include helping to get this city back on it's feet and running again.

response to varoom94

My only thing I would say to you is that follow the will of the people and not you personal opinions or your heart that is what is ruining every aspect of American life and government in this country. That has always been the requiement for elected office and was foggeten long ago by the majority of the current politicians everywhere. Well I live in Bristol I would hope the change goes on everywhere.

Jack

I believe more locally grown people are what is needed in EP, people like Christine Rossi bringing in fresh community based ideas. We don't need rehashing of failed plans with no new direction.

I BELIEVE MOST OF YOUR "LOCALLY GROWN" VARIETIES GOT US TO WHERE WE ARE NOW!

REMEMBER ............................... THE MAYOR IS LOCALLY GROWN, LOL LOL

Improve ep, if you hit the caps button again, it should unlock. GOOD POINT about Larissa being homegrown and causing all the issues.

"Rastabri" Could you please tell me what Rastabri means?

By the way, I said the Mayor was "locally grown" but made no reference whatsoever to his causing any issues. You know as well as I do, he is doing nothing more than resolving all the issues that have been created by the other "locally grown" specimens.

Rastabri = ( Really, A, Sometimes,Teacher, About, Bright, Real, Idea's ) Ok well sometimes nobody is perfect right LOL.

Jack

THE RI.STATEWIDE COALITION JOIN THE FIGHT TO SAVE OUR STATE www.statewide coalition.com YOUR HELP IS NEEDED

GOOD MORNING NEW WORLD ORDER SLAVES THE US. NATIONAL DEBT $12,064,918,024,693. OUR CHILDREN WILL PAY FOR OUR IGNORANCE

Did you know?

"The NEA has been the single biggest obstacle to education reform in this country. We know because we worked for the NEA."

— Billy Boyton and John Lloyd, former top officers of the Nebraska and Kansas NEA affiliates, respectively, in Educational Freedom

improveEP,

This is a quote from 1994. Talk about recycling....

YOU ARE RIGHT.................................THEY (NEA) HAVE BECOME EVEN A BIGGER OBSTACLE SINCE 1994. I MUST KEEP CURRENT! LOL